2012-05-09 (TV2): Breivik Trial Transcript: Day 15: Utoya Massacre Testimony:
Chief of Public Health: Kari Ormstad | Police Superintendent Trond Sandsbråten | KRIPOS Police Superintendent Gøran Dyvesveen | Forensic Technician Åshild Vege | Autopsies: Sondre Furseth Dale (17) | Simon Sæbø (18) | Modupe Ellen Awoyemi (15) | Sharidyn Svebakk-Bøhn (14) | Marianne Sandvik (16) | Gizem Dogan (17) | Johannes Buø (14) | Even Flugstad Malmedal (18) | Syvert Knudsen (17) | Synne Røyneland (18) | Torjus Jakobsen Blattmann (17) | Ingrid Berg Heggelund (18) | Survivor & Witnesses: Tonje Brenna (24) | Oddvar Hansen | Bjørn Magnus Jacobsen Ihler
Oslo District Court: #: 11-188627 MED-05 | 09 May 2012 | Breivik Report/TV2.NO
Forensic scientist Kari Ormstad and crime technicians Trond Sandsbråten and Åshild Vege provide the details of the autopsy reports, while victim family attorneys provide short biographies about the Utoya deceased:
Love Trail: Sondre Furseth Dale (17) | Simon Sæbø (18) | Modupe Ellen Awoyemi (15) | Sharidyn Svebakk-Bøhn (14) | Marianne Sandvik (16) |
Skolestua: Gizem Dogan (17) | Johannes Buø (14) |
Stoltenberget & Bolsjevika: Even Flugstad Malmedal (18) | Syvert Knudsen (17) | Synne Røyneland (18) | Torjus Jakobsen Blattmann (17) | Ingrid Berg Heggelund (18)
Survivor & Witnesses: Tonje Brenna (24) | Oddvar Hansen | Bjørn Magnus Jacobsen Ihler
8:31 Good morning from Oslo Courthouse.
8:32 Today twelve autopsy reports and technical evidence in relation to those killed in the main trial after 22 July-terror.
8:35 After lunch the three witnesses in connection with Utøya be on trial. The first witness is AUFs General Tonje Brenna, who is, according to evidence the task should start his story at 13
8:43 The other witnesses after lunch boat driver Oddvar Hansen, who brought the first policemen to Utøya and saved the children out of the water, and Bjorn Ihler to tell about how he and two young boys saved his life on the water's edge.
8:50 The court set at 09 Court participants have begun to adopt courtroom 250
8:58 The defendant, Anders Breivik Behring, is brought into court.
9:00 The court is set.
9:05 Correctional Technician Goran Dyvesveen summarize what you have gone through before, and in which area of ??the Utøya they killed that must be reviewed today were found.
9:06 The court administrator should be noted that several things dishes out in the country do not hear audio from the courtroom 250 in the Oslo District Court.
9:06 Court takes break until 0915 in anticipation of the problems should be settled in.
9:08 The trial in Oslo District Court transferred to 17 courthouses elsewhere in the country.
9:10 Relatives have access to these courts. According to aid lawyers to relatives of some of the victims that are covered now be present in courts outside Oslo Courthouse.
9:14 The defendant is the same as any breaks in court brought out of the courtroom 250
9:18 The court administrator Wenche Arntzen decided that the court should be left at 0915, but neither the defendant or the judge has returned to the courtroom.
9:21 The defendant, Anders Breivik Behring, is taken back to the courtroom 250
9:21 Court judges come.
9:21 The court is set.
9:22 Correctional Technician Goran Dyvesveen from the NCIS goes through what you have previously gone through.
9:24 Dyvesveen: - Now we are down to the area just below where the top ten of Love trail we went through yesterday was found.
9:24 Dyvesveen shows an overview of how the dead were found.
9:26 The court treats the execution of Sondre Furseth Dale (17).
9:29 Dyvesveen shows pictures from the area where Dale should have been shot. He was found dead in the water.
9:29 Dyvesveen also referred to the photographs included in a lay-court players have been given.
9:30 Aashild Vege Institute of Public Health explains the forensic findings.
9:33 Lawyer Gunhild Bergan: - Sondre had plans for his life. He understood solidarity values and message. He was inclusive and to be inspired by.
9:33 The court treats the execution of Simon Sæbø (18).
9:34 Dyvesveen: - Sæbø died on the cliffs at the Love Trail.
9:34 Dyvesveen shows pictures of the place Sæbø found. He also refers to the images in the court binder.
9:35 Vege explains the forensic findings.
9:38 Lawyer Nadia Hall: - Simon was a member of Labour Youth as a 13-year-old. He was the first leader of the local team in Salang. The plan was that he was going straight from Utøya to conferences for young people in Russia.
9:39 The court treats the execution of Modupe Ellen Awoyemi (15).
9:40 Dyvesveen: - Awoyemi died on the cliffs at the Love Trail.
9:41 Dyvesveen displays images from the site and show pictures to the court binder.
9:41 Vege explains the forensic findings.
9:46 Lawyer: - Ellen, as she had begun to call himself, was a cheerful, bubbly girl who had plaer for his life. She had decided to become a lawyer, although she had three years to decide on before she was studying. She was a sociable and active girl. She was 15 years old when she died.
9:47 The court treats the execution of Sharidyn Svebakk-Bøhn (14).
9:48 Dyvesveen: - He died on the cliffs at the Love Trail.
9:49 Dyvesveen show thumbnails of selection where Svebakk-Bohn was found dead. He also refers to the images in the court binder.
9:50 Vege Drugs account for the damage Svebakk-Bohn was applied.
9:54 Lawyer: - Sharidyn born in New Zealand, but lived much of his life. She is described as a caring girl who had a warm smile that infected. Sharidyn should be starting ninth grade. She was on her way into adolescence and celebrated 14-anniversary five days before she was killed.
9:54 The court pauses until 1015.
10:08 The court has left eight autopsy reports to go through before lunch. It is expected that the court takes a break in the course of this review.
10:11 Court participants are beginning to take their places.
10:15 The defendant is brought into court.
10:16 The court is set.
10:16 The court goes through the execution of Marianne Sandvik (16).
10:17 Dyvesveen: - Sandvik died on the cliffs at the Love Trail.
10:18 Dyvesveen shows overview of selection of where Sandvik was found. He also refers to pictures taken in the court binder.
10:18 Court participants are given a binder with pictures that are considered stronger than those shown on the big screen in the courts.
10:19 Forensic Aashild Vege undergo the forensic findings.
10:21 Lawyer Tone Linn Thingvold: - Marianne was a cheerful girl who was only 16 years. She was to have begun in the health and social care in high school. She had only been a member of AUF for half a year. She is described as a girl who had the ability to see people around them. She had a dream of working with disadvantaged youth.
10:23 Dyvesveen summarizes the findings of those killed and the Love path, including the two that were discussed yesterday.
10:23 Correctional Technician Trond Sandsbråten takes over Dyvesveen when you now start the review of those killed by Skolestua.
10:24 Sandsbråten shows the area on a thumbnail image.
10:25 The killing of two youths who died in a forest area by Skolestua to be reviewed.
10:25 The court goes through the execution of Gizem Dogan (17).
10:26 Sand Bråten: - Dogan died in the forest by Skolestua.
10:26 Sand Bråten show an overview image in which a mark showing the Dogan was found executed.
10:27 Sand Bråten refers to images in the file court participants have been given.
10:28 Right Medication Per Hoff-Olsen explains the forensic investigations.
10:28 Hoff-Olsen is an expert from the Institute of Public Health.
10:31 Lawyer Morten Engesbak: - The survivors find it difficult to describe Gizem in a few words, and quotes from what she wrote: "I am so happy in Norway and proud to be a Muslim with Norwegian citizenship."
10:31 The court goes through the assassination of Johannes Buø (14).
10:31 Sandsbråten: - Buø died in the forest by Skolestua.
10:32 Sandsbråten shows thumbnail images of the celebration of the forest BUO was found executed.
10:32 Sandsbråten show pictures to the court binder.
10:33 Hoff-Olsen explains the forensic investigations.
10:37 Lawyer Nadia Hall: - Johannes Buø (14) spent the last three years in Longyearbyen. Was active in the Labour Youth and Children's International Summer Villages. He had many friends in Norway and the world. The fact that John, who had traveled the world on their own, not returning home from a summer camp in Norway seems pointless for the family.
10:37 Sandsbråten shows an overview of how the two people killed in the forest by Skolestua found.
10:38 Sandsbraten says they now go over to the killings at the Proud Mountain and Bolsheviks. He shows a snapshot where the area is marked in the northern area of ??the island.
10:41 The court goes through the killing of Even Flugstad Malmedal (18).
10:41 Sandsbråten: - He died at Pride Mountain.
10:42 The court will see an aerial photo where it is marked where he was found killed.
10:42 The court will also see a picture taken from Tyrifjorden where marked where he was found.
10:43 Sand Bråten refers to images in the file. Hoff-Olsen gives an account now for forensic investigations.
10:45 Lawyer: - Even was everybody's friend. Even was a warm person and a resource like no other. He had a talent and interest in including management.
10:45 The court has taken 20 minutes break. The court is again at 1105.
11:04 Court actors occupy seats in the courtroom 250
11:08 The court is set.
11:09 The court waiting a bit to continue in anticipation of the air conditioner can be turned down. The plant creates noise in the courtroom.
11:11 Breivik defendant uses the time to talk with their primary advocate, Geir Lippestad.
11:12 The court takes five minute break while waiting for the air system is screwed down.
11:13 Unlike the other breaks are not the accused from the courtroom.
11:16 Today there are many more relatives and the press present in the courtroom than earlier this week.
11:16 The court is again convened.
11:17 The court goes through the execution of Syvert Knudsen (17).
11:17 Sand Bråten: - Knudsen died on Stolt Mountain.
11:17 Sand Bråten displays images in which the site is marked.
11:18 Sand Bråten show pictures to the court binder.
11:19 Hoff-Olsen explains the forensic investigations.
11:22 Lawyer Andreas Bjorn Salvesen: - The family says Syvert has always been a happy boy. The guitar was a faithful companion, and it helped Utøya. He played and sang for those who were on Utøya. Syvert had his own boat and could easily go out to an island to sit there and think.
11:22 The court goes through the execution of Synne Røyneland (18).
11:23 Sand Bråten: - Røyneland died Proud Mountain.
11:24 Sand Bråten displays thumbnail images in which the site is marked.
11:24 Sand Bråten show pictures to the court binder. Portfolio contains images that are considered stronger than those shown on large screens in the courtroom.
11:25 Hoff-Olsen explains the forensic investigations.
11:27 Lawyer Christian Lundin: - Although Synne was only 18 years, she traces. She was new to the AUF. She was socially engaged. In the blog she wrote about the little things she thought were worth preserving.
11:28 The court goes through the execution of Torjus Jakobsen Blattmann (17).
11:30 Sand Bråten: - Blatt Mann died on Pride Mountain.
11:30 Sand Bråten displays thumbnail images in which the site is marked.
11:30 Sand Bråten refers to pictures taken in the court binder.
11:32 Hoff-Olsen explains the forensic investigations.
11:35 Lawyer Ivar Sveen: - Torjus was vice chairman of the AUF in Kristiansand. It was the second time he was on Utøya. On Utøya he was much in the rock tent and trained with several of the youngsters that are now gone. He was a caring, family-loving boy. He enjoyed life.
11:36 The court is now through the execution of Ingrid Berg Heggelund (18).
11:36 Sand Bråten: - She died at Pride Mountain.
11:37 Sand Bråten displays thumbnail images in which the site is marked.
11:37 Sand Bråten refers to images included in the binder court participants have been given.
11:39 Hoff-Olsen goes through the forensic findings.
11:42 Lawyer Change Refsdal: - She was 18 years. In spring 2011 she was Russian. She had plans to study the administration and management, and had been taken on by the University. It was the second time she was on Utøya. Ingrid described as generous, kind and thoughtful. She was very engaged. Ingrid had a distinct sense of justice.
11:43 Correctional Technician Trond Sand boat concludes today's review with a summary of those killed at the Pride Mountain-Bolshevik.
11:44 Tomorrow you will go through a number of people killed in the area and killed at the Pump House.
11:44 The Court has taken a five minute break.
11:45 After the break, the court shall decide whether the plaintiff in the case may be present in the courtroom during the victim's testimony.
11:54 The defendant is not brought into court after the break.
11:54 Breivik be entered in court.
11:55 The court is set.
11:56 District Court Judge Wenche Arntzen, the court administrator: - We take a spin on the victim's right to be present during each other's testimony. It is a decision from the court that they can not be present.
11:57 The case must be addressed after the decision has been appealed.
11:58 Arntzen refer to the letter and decisions.
11:59 Lippestad: - Our point is that the victims are important witnesses, therefore, important that they explain themselves one by one. We have tried to categorize those who have information and point to areas where they will explain all about.
12:00 Lippestad: - The first on the list are those we believe have a type of information can overhear each other's testimony, without significance for their explanation. The large block with the name we have set up, we see that they have seen the defendant's response pattern. They are in police interrogation explained about what the defendant has said and done in confrontation with the deceased.
12:01 Lippestad: - We believe they have important information in relation to the main question in this case.
12:02 Lippestad: - We submit that no one can overhear each other, subsidized the division into groups.
12:04 Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: - We first became aware of this in the morning. We see some circumstances the court should keep in mind: As the case stands now is whether the defendant was psychotic 22 July. Our first thought is that you can hear the experts on these important testimony for their consideration.
12:04 Engh: - So the question is whether it can reach things they explain to the court that may be significant. The experts have had access to police interrogations. I recommend that we listen to the experts about this.
12:05 Engh: - We need to make an assessment of whether the testimony at the hearing fails to distinguish between what they remember and what they have heard. What one might ask about particularly is if it is supplemented information.
12:06 Engh: - We also thought about how this matter is handled in the media. The possibility that the witnesses included in the media outside the court's control.
12:06 Engh: - We must also ask the experts whether it is of interest only those who have spoken with him, or even those who only have seen him.
12:07 Lawyer Frode Elgesem: - The Court of Appeal has stated in the ruling nullifies the District Court's decision states that the Court of Appeal has a limited base from which to assess whether the main principle should be deviated.
12:09 Elgesem: - There are important considerations relating to the right to be present. The Supreme Court has previously stated that it is an individual decision. These are decisions about victim's rights.
12:10 Elgesem refers to the preparatory work of the Criminal Procedure Act.
12:10 Elgesem: - In relation to the victim, it is a balancing of rights.
12:11 Elgesem: - In this case, there is much that speaks in favor of the aggrieved party must be present. One is its own adaptation of what happened, we want to provide support to each other and we want to prepare themselves for their own testimony.
12:12 Elgesem: - In the expert reports are no references to the witnesses' statements to the police.
12:12 Elgesem: - In many cases, the youngsters will be able to supplement what the experts need in relation to sane safety issue.
12:14 There has been a morning e-mail correspondence between the parties the court and the court concerning the question of the victim's presence before its own explanation.
12:15 Expert Synne Sørheim: - We have had access to all police questioning. We have done this to look for qualitative important information.
12:16 Lippestad clarifies why some witnesses are grouped into different groups.
12:17 Lippestad: - That the matter lives his life in public, we are aware of. It is not an argument that could further weaken the testimony in court.
12:17 Lippestad: - remind the court that it sent two letters on the matter, and pray that both letters be taken into consideration.
12:17 The first letter is dated in March.
12:18 Judge Arntzen: - The victims of Utøya can not be present in court after lunch.
12:19 Elgesem: - It would be a bit dramatic decision to exclude.
12:19 Arntzen: - Now I get from my neighbor that we take a longer lunch, it made a decision before the judges again.
12:20 Arntzen: - The court pauses until half past one.
13:05 The court has to break 13.30.
13:18 The court has now meeting to decide whether witnesses can watch the other witnesses' testimony in the courtroom or whether they must wait outside. Read more about this here.
13:27 The court actors begin to take their places in the courtroom 250
13:29 The court administrator Wenche Arntzen announced before lunch that a decision on who will later explain what happened at Utøya must be ready before the court made after lunch.
13:29 The defendant Behring Anders Breivik is led into the courtroom.
13:31 According to the schedule to General Tonje Brenna AUF in a statement when the right starts up after the break.
13:33 Breivik is now located on the second row in the dock, and is thus not as visible from the witness stand.
13:34 The court should have started after the lunch break at 13.30. The actors are in place, but judges are still not arrived.
13:38 On the back row in the dock, sitting Breivik between their defenders Kvinge Isolated Ground and Odd Ivar Aursnes Greenland.
13:40 It's been ten minutes since the hearing was to have started up again after an extended lunch break.
13:42 There has been no notice of when the right set. All the actors are in place and waiting for the judges.
13:46 Judge Arntzen said before the break was extended that she wanted to use the basic rule of criminal procedure law, so that the AUF had not got to be present before a decision was made. After a conversation with Judge Arne Lyng decided they to make a decision during the break.
13:49 Breivik has been moved back a row since before the break. There he sits with the two medforsvarerne Tord Kvinge Jordet and Odd Ivar Aursnes Grøn.
13:50 Security in the courtroom is high. Both police officers and court guards remain at almost an arm's length from Breivik.
13:52 The schedule should right now be done with the first witness, Helen Brenna. Two more witnesses are scheduled to testify today.
13:53 Original schedule was the first witness was to start his story at 13
13:54 Court judges come.
13:54 The court is set.
13:55 Judge Wenche Arntzen: - The court's unanimous decision: The Court would note that the court is not familiar with witness statements to the police.
13:56 The court in line with the ruling from the Court of Appeal.
13:57 The court assumes the defense lawyer overview from the police explanations of who can not attend.
13:57 The court will allow these witnesses to be present during testimony in the areas they are not even going to explain about.
13:58 The court notes that those who are not themselves shot or shot at, and thus have information about what happened.
13:59 With the exception of a few witnesses who Arntzen read up, the witnesses leave the room.
14:00 Prosecutors Svein Holden: - Before the next witness, we must move onto a new phase in the presentation of evidence. I will give a short presentation of visual aids that can be used during their testimony.
14:01 Holden: - A map for use by witnesses who will place to place events.
14:02 Holden also showcases a solution where the witnesses can show locations with 360-degree images at different locations on Utøya. Both outside and inside buildings.
14:02 The solution is reminiscent of mapping services like Google Street View.
14:03 Holden: - All the pictures that are taken based on the 31 august. There is thus no different than it was 22 July. For areas in the water, the water level is higher.
14:03 Holden: - More places that would be appropriate to go into, is under water.
14:04 Holden: - I think we generally ask the witnesses testify without it on the wall. For some of them, we will focus on a number of specific areas.
14:05 Tonje Brenna (24), secretary general of the AUF, entered into the witness box.
14:05 Arntzen requested personal information.
14:06 Arntzen request that Brenna explains the way she hukser it, and pray that she makes insurance.
14:06 Brenna assures that she will explain themselves properly.
14:06 Arntzen offers Brenna and sit while she give testimony. Brenna sits.
14:07 Holden: - What is the general secretary of Labour Youth?
14:07 Brenna explains what her position as general secretary means.
14:07 Prosecutors Holden: - How long have you held the position?
14:07 Brenna: I have had this position since 2010.
14:08 Prosecutors Holden: - Can you tell us about your affiliation with AUF before you were elected?
14:08 Brenna: - Before I was elected I was an active member since 2005. In 2006 I began working as County Secretary in Akershus. I've been in management since 2008.
14:08 Prosecutors Holden: - You said that one of your tasks was to organize the summer camp at Utøya. Can you give us an idea of ??how the camp is organized?
14:09 Brenna: - It is arranged in the same place at the same time every year. The central committee that determines this. Entries via the county teams.
14:10 Prosecutors Holden: - Is there any permanent staff on the island?
14:10 Brenna: - The summer camp is operated in conjunction with the staff at Utøya and crew.
14:11 Holden asks Brenna talk about safety.
14:12 Brenna: - We keep track of who is where at any time. There are separate guard laws. Berntsen and Havdal were civilians hired guards.
14:12 Prosecutors Holden: - We are your experiences of 22 July. What happened?
14:13 Brenna: - After we were told that something had happened in Oslo, we assembled camp management and decided that we would collect the camp to a general meeting, so that there was panic. The meeting took place in the great hall of the Café building
14:13 Brenna - I tried to comfort those who were worried.
14:14 Breivik watching Brenna. Brenna is talking to the prosecutor, so the accused can see her in profile from behind on the right side.
14:14 Brenna - I talked to my boyfriend on the phone, when I heard something that sounded like fireworks or Chinese putter. There I also said to my partner.
14:15 Brenna - I ran to the bend at the Café building. There I saw three people who fell to the ground. There I met a (editor. Skipper) that ran in the opposite direction.
14:15 Prosecutors Holden: - You said you saw two people fall down. Perceived that they were shot there and then?
14:16 Brenna: - It looked like they went straight into the ground, but I realized that something had happened since I heard the bang. But I'm not sure about this.
14:16 Prosecutors Holden: - So you know who fired shots?
14:16 Brenna - I did not see any other than those that went down in front of me.
14:16 Brenna asked to continue the explanation of what she experienced on.
14:16 Brenna - I came along sanitary developed at Love Path. In the direction Sydspissen. Do not remember how far I ran until I met many people. It was chaotic.
14:17 Brenna: - There were two girls who came to me. She was obviously one shot and injured. She was with another girl who said that Gunnar had been shot.
14:18 Brenna - I thought we just had to keep moving. I saw that he was injured and lay there. It was maybe 15-20 feet away. I thought that she was severely injured was a kid so I could take her with me.
14:19 Breivik look easy in Brenna as she explains it.
14:19 Brenna: - Thought to run for the cliffs along the love of the trail. A couple of the guys there were pretty quiet, so I would be using them to calm down people. We arranged almost a queue down this slope. It was very steep and all would appear.
14:19 Brenna: - There was no bottom to ensure that people do not fell into the water.
14:20 Brenna - I and another girl standing under a rock ledge. We went down quickly.
14:20 The experts look alternately at Brenna and the accused.
14:20 Brenna tried to take care of her friend who was badly injured.
14:21 So they see that a person fell down in front of them. Brenna says he was shot.
14:21 Brenna - I tried a long time to keep count of the number of shots and where they came from.
14:21 Brenna: - It smelled very gunpowder. The road almost in his eyes.
14:21 Brenna: - You hear people hit the water and rocks at the landing.
14:23 Brenna - I did not see that he landed there, but (name anonymized) was just below me. down in the water.
14:23 Brenna: - Mobile rings constantly. The shooting is in progress for quite some time, it feels like, before the shooting moves towards the schoolhouse.
14:23 Breivik take a glass of water. Keeps the water in your mouth for a while before swallowing.
14:23 Prosecutors Holden: - What was it like to be on the cliffs at the time? Did you talk together?
14:24 Brenna: - The only thing I thought of was that now we must try not to panic. We whispered to each other in the morning, we are home and can eat well and watch the movie on Saturday ... we tried to keep spirits up.
14:24 Brenna - We saw clearly severely injured people around us, without being able to do something about it.
14:24 Prosecutors Holden: - Did you have any idea of ??how many people you were in that area?
14:25 Brenna - maybe 40-50 people. Not quite sure.
14:25 Brenna - I'm pretty well known in Utøya, so I was able to place shots where the sounds came from.
14:26 Brenna: - The second time he came back and shot down on us, it started an avalanche of stone that came over us.
14:26 Brenna: - It was whispered all along that it was the police who shot at us. It was obvious cry for help, and writing. Without that we could do something about it.
14:26 Prosecutors Holden: - In the police interview you talked something about a rock?
14:27 Brenna: - There was a lot of stone that fell down over and around us. Among other things, I was struck by a rather large rock.
14:27 Prosecutors Holden: - You got a stone that lay in the neck, so you mean it was fired a shot that hit the stone. How did you do that?
14:28 Brenna: - It is difficult to separate out just the event. For what felt like everything was so close and that one was hit every time. I thought it was only a matter of time. The shot came so so close.
14:28 Prosecutors Holden: - Did you have any experience of how far away the shooter was?
14:28 Brenna: - There was such that one could hear that he went to the heath. There were three to four meters culprits I think. But I'm not quite sure.
14:28 Prosecutors Holden: - So you know where he was?
14:29 Brenna - I saw what I believe was the end of a weapon. I did close the island and dive. After that I will not be for a long time. So, I saw him.
14:29 Prosecutors Holden: - What happened next?
14:29 Breivik seems to take notes during parts of Brenna's testimony.
14:30 Brenna - I do not know if the last time he was there and shot at us. But I think I heard shouts and outbursts happy when people were hit. The last time he was there did it for a while.
14:30 Prosecutors Holden: - What was it that was said?
14:30 Brenna: - If I'm going to spell it so it becomes Wowo ...
14:30 Prosecutors Holden: - He has denied the questions that he has said something that could be perceived in that direction ...
14:31 Breivik biting his lower lip while Brenna explains about what she believes to be heard, he said.
14:31 Brenna - I have my opinion and I do believe that it happened. Otherwise I would not have said it to the police.
14:31 Breivik shakes head slightly.
14:32 Brenna: - Just as the helicopter arrived, I was very scared. I thought they would take us. I tried to listen to the shots while I called 112 and 113
14:32 Brenna says that people called home and said goodbye to those they loved in.
14:32 Brenna - I thought that if we do not get shot and we will never get there.
14:33 Prosecutors Holden: - Eventually there came a ...
14:34 Brenna: - At the end, when I did not know that it was the end, when there came a creeping down to swim. He came with a little boy of 8-9 years. He says that he will swim, but I say that he is wearing rubber boots. He replied that he had to take them off first.
14:34 Prosecutors Holden: - Considering a swim yourself?
14:35 Brenna - I thought that there was no point to swim to shore because it happened in Oslo as well. I put that thought from me since I was there with the other two.
14:35 Brenna: - I am also not so good at swimming ..
14:35 Brenna prefer a little smile of this.
14:36 Brenna: - So it was just totally stillle.
14:36 Brenna says that there came a police boat with two police in. The police officers called in a few survived, but that they remained quiet.
14:36 Prosecutors Holden: - How did you get off the island?
14:37 Brenna: - Then came an ambulance and we thought that this could be her salvation. When we saw the civilian boats, we were more secure.
14:37 Breivik consults constantly with one of his defenders while Brenna explains itself.
14:37 Brenna: - We are arguing that they had to bring Viljar who were injured. We heard that he was alive.
14:38 Prosecutors Holden asks Brenna have seen something more when it comes to many of those who were shot at Utøya.
14:39 Prosecutors Holden: - So you have more than two of the dead?
14:40 Brenna talks about someone she knew who she met. She was not aware that she was injured then. Brenna also tells anyone she met.
14:41 Holden takes a picture of the slope at the Love Trail.
14:41 Brenna pointing at the picture of the place where they hid. It's not that far above the water.
14:41 Prosecutors Holden: - Where the other fell down?
14:42 Brenna shows the map where she believes they fell down.
14:42 Brenna says that there was less water in which the afternoon 22 July in relation to the image displayed in court.
14:42 Prosecutors Holden: - What happened when you arrived in the country side?
14:43 Brenna: - When we came ashore, there were a lot of health professionals and the volunteers who took us in Mt and evaluated if we were injured or not. We were taken into a bus. Out of people went back and forth wearing blankets and looked for each other.
14:44 Brenna:-The bus was full and people shared mobile phones with each other so that one could get called.
14:44 Brenna: - When we arrived at Sundvollen there was a lot there. I was put out by how much the police, journalists and relatives who were there and light.
14:45 Brenna - I went and signed up. On the way back stopped all me and asked if I had seen it and that person.
14:45 Brenna: - Inside the lobby, I met one from the police vest. I introduced myself and said that I could assist with what I knew about Utøya.
14:46 Brenna - I talked about the registration PC. When they got hold of it they began to look on the registration lists of those registered.
14:47 Brenna: - Afterwards I went to the family phone, there was a nurse and had a list of savende were reported. I took the list and looked for them.
14:47 Brenna: - After a while, both aufs chairman and deputy chairman in place of Sundvollen. So we talked about what we should do.
14:47 Prosecutors Holden: - What happened later in the evening and the days afterwards?
14:48 Brenna has a note in the witness box as the prosecutor says she can look at during his testimony.
14:48 Brenna: - There was a lot there. I tried to get an idea of ??how many people were missing. Again and again I disappointed parents who did not find their children. Saturday night I went from Sundvollen and home.
14:48 Prosecutors Holden: - How have you personally experienced the months after 22 July?
14:49 Brenna says that she was the Cathedral on Sunday. And back at work Monday.
14:49 Brenna: - It runs smoothly. I was very much afraid. It is harder to work while we get a lot of help and comfort.
14:50 Defender Vibeke Hein Bæra: - I ask you as Secretary General. You prepare a program for the camp. Who is helping to prepare it?
14:50 Brenna: - The program prepared by AUF in cooperation with the Central Board. We are often organized into different themes. The system for topics hvike you prefer.
14:51 Consequences: - Munnar it out in such a program? (Holds up a sheet)
14:51 Brenna: - Yes, it does.
14:51 Brenna says that it is always associated with great interest in who is this year's guests.
14:51 Brenna says the program is open, including on the Internet.
14:52 Bæra: - Is it easy to find Utøya?
14:52 Brenna - I have for years taken the bus to Utøya, but I often have almost forgotten to press the stop button. It is very difficult to find.
14:52 Brenna explains that it is not clearly marked down the road.
14:52 Consequences: - Can you just come and order the boat over to Utøya?
14:53 Breivik notes while Brenna answered.
14:53 Brenna: - The boat has scheduled times. So you can not just order a boat. But most are pre-registered. One is then checked against a list. Luggage will also be checked before you get to board the boat.
14:53 Consequences: - Can you tell us more about safety conditions at Utøya?
14:54 Brenna - It's Havdal and Berntsen has had responsibility there. They've probably been there for perhaps 15 years I think. They are involved in the action, the talks and eats with us.
14:54 Brenna: - There are guards who walk around the island to warn the two responsible if something happens.
14:54 Consequences: - If intruders would take over the island, would you have been notified?
14:55 Brenna: - It has not been a problem. But it may well be that I had asked the question.
14:55 Consequences: - If the defendant had not been dressed as a police officer that day. Do you think he'd come over?
14:56 Brenna - I think I had been incredibly hard through the normal procedures.
14:56 Lippestad: - You have proved a remarkable calmness and vigor that might have saved many people.
14:56 Lippestad: - You said you heard a "wow". How do you know that the "wow" one did not come from the perpetrator?
14:57 Brenna: - Because it was a joyous outburst that was repeated several times. And as I felt the situation was no one else had had reason to express it.
14:57 Lippestad: - Do you think he saw you or anyone else who was on the cliffs from where he stood and shot?
14:58 Brenna: - There is a steep down, and when it rains, it is difficult to get down. But there is not much vegetation. There were not many places to hide. I would say that it was strange if he did not see us.
14:58 Lawyer Siv Hallgren: - This queue down the slope. Come all down?
14:59 Brenna: - No, they did not. One of them I could not live. He was killed
14:59 Hallgren: - Can the 11 who died there have been in the queue?
14:59 Brenna - I can remember two people that I recognized, but no more than that.
14:59 Hallgren ask Brenna elaborate on what she saw around one of those killed.
15:00 Brenna - I saw that a man fell and landed hard against the stone. I did not see his face clearly, but I knew who it was out of her clothes.
15:01 Hallgren ask Brenna remember specific people.
15:01 Hallgren asked about age at summer camp.
15:02 Brenna: - There was no age limit on the summer camp. But since you spend the night in tents, there are some that are more relevant than others. There were also child care for those who wanted their children with them.
15:02 Hallgren: - You said you would not see him if you survived. Why not?
15:02 Brenna - I would not have many memories of those who were behind this than necessary.
15:03 Hallgren: - How you handled the various emotions?
15:04 Brenna - I think if I had been alone. I believe that I had given up. But I think that I thought if would pretend I was full of faith, so could it be comforting to others. But if felt alone when.
15:04 Hallgren ask Brenna explain how it goes with her today.
15:04 Brenna says she needs comfort, and is not finished with what happened.
15:05 Elgesem ask Brenna describe evacuation plans.
15:06 Brenna says that they have contact with many different agencies.
15:06 Brenna: - Evacuation would be if someone was sick and had to the emergency room.
15:07 Elgesem: - Was there any plan for a full evacuation of the participants on the island?
15:07 Brenna says it was not.
15:07 Brenna - I can not think of any other situation than what happened, where it would be necessary to evacuate the island.
15:07 Elgesem: - What did you think about the security of the more important guests?
15:08 Brenna: - When guests are important, the people around him that is both fit and they are considering. The times we've had ministers on a visit, I have taken it as a sign that this is a safe place to be.
15:08 Elgesem: - How has it been with the AUF after 22 July?
15:08 Brenna - I think many people find that the trial is difficult to relate to. Many are characterized by fear, and there is much loss and grief. But we have been well taken care of and received much support.
15:09 Brenna: - It is heavy, but there is a belief among the AUF.
15:10 Lawyer Yvonne Mette Larsen: - You said you heard someone say Breivik "wow" words. What thoughts did you feel? Did you talk to others about it?
15:10 Brenna - I have not talked to anyone about it. But I thought the much that was strange. It was a bit like if someone had a very experience of being in a game.
15:11 Brenna: - But I'm probably be colored by what has been discussed in this hall.
15:11 Larsen: - What you heard Utøya and what you have seen in court, it fits together?
15:11 Brenna - I felt that the perpetrator of Utøya controlled situation. While here, he is very passive.
15:11 Breivik smiles while Brenna answered.
15:12 Breivik given the opportunity to comment on the witness.
15:12 Breivik: - There is a comment to the court administrator. Is it true that I have to ask an administrator?
15:13 Breivik: - I have been informed that the matter under what circumstances can I ask questions of the witness. But I wanted to ask questions to Brenna on aufs ideological program.
15:14 Breivik continues that way he is experiencing this now, so he does not ask questions about this.
15:14 Brenna finished his statement and leave the witness box.
15:15 The court pauses until 1530.
15:24 Prosecutors Svein Holden indicated before the break that the two remaining vitenes explanation will take more than an hour.
15:30 Next witness is boat operator Oddvar Hansen who both rescued children from swimming Tyrifjorden and shipped the first policemen to Utøya.
15:30 Before the break Breivik wanted to ask direct questions to the aufs Helen Brenna. That he was not allowed by Judge Wenche Arntzen said that this is what his defenders to do.
15:31 Breivik was clearly unhappy with this.
15:31 Breivik is led into the courtroom after the break.
15:32 The court is set.
15:32 District Court Judge Wenche Arntzen ask the witness disclose personal information.
15:33 Arntzen ask Hansen make an affirmation.
15:34 Prosecutors Svein Holden: - How did you experience 22 July?
15:34 Oddvar Hansen: - 22 July started when I was at work. Had a pretty quiet day at work. I quit the job and was home at about 15
15:35 Hansen: - When I saw on TV I saw the news about the explosion in Oslo. As I looked at it was my partner in the basement of the guest house and washed clothes. She came in and said she thought someone shot at Utøya.
15:36 Oddvar Hansen: - We were concerned about what happened in Oslo. When we saw on TV 2 News Channel Stoltenberg we heard tell that there was a situation at Utøya.
15:37 Oddvar Hansen: - We sat and watched this while we heard the shots from Utøya. When we ran out and saw with binoculars at Utøya. Then we saw lots of people in the water swimming.
15:38 Oddvar Hansen: - It is well 1.2 km as the crow flies to Utøya. On the beach, I have a fishing boat that we used out of the great our boat outside.
15:38 Oddvar Hansen: - I thought that I had to bring my rifle to defend myself.
15:39 Oddvar Hansen: - We reached out to the boat and drove full speed towards Utøya. We did not know what awaited us. There were many thoughts that went through my head.
15:39 Holden: - How long does it seems Utøya?
15:39 Oddvar Hansen: - About two minutes.
15:40 Oddvar Hansen: - Out there, we saw the boat Reiulf middle of the strait. We drove over to it and asked what was happening on the island. Then there was panic in the boat. I did not understand what everyone said, but I perceived that it was shot there on the island.
15:40 Holden has taken up a map of Utøya that Hansen will be able to show where he went by boat.
15:41 Oddvar Hansen: - When we came to it as we have some boats that had come out from Utvika camping. Maybe a five boats that were on the outer side. We chose to run where they were someone else.
15:41 Hansen uses the mouse to show how he has seen such various boats and swimming children.
15:41 Oddvar Hansen: - We should see if there was anyone else there. There swam the people based on the island. There we met two girls who we took in the boat.
15:42 Oddvar Hansen: - There were lots of people on the southern tip that tried to wave us into. They swam towards us, but we chose to take the lying furthest out in the water first.
15:42 Oddvar Hansen: - It was a tough choice seen in retrospect, since that was where the offender completed.
15:43 Oddvar Hansen: - We were on the west side of the pump housing. There we took up a girl. While we drag her into the boat slams a shot. I did not hear the shot, but then the spray. Then there was panic in the boat. We set her up as quickly as we could and I gave full throttle off the island.
15:43 Holden: - How far from the shore were you then?
15:44 Oddvar Hansen: - I guess we were about 150 meters from shore when it happened. I never saw where he stood.
15:44 Oddvar Hansen: - When we ran out of there we saw lots of people who swam out. Maybe 20 to 30 pieces in the water. Then I kulenedslagene in the water around the swimming.
15:45 Oddvar Hansen: - I saw another boat driver whom I knew from before, and gave signs that we had to get out since it was shot.
15:46 Oddvar Hansen: - So we drove around Sydspissen. We ran into the pier at the Lien farm on the other side, the same place where Reiulf entered.
15:47 Oddvar Hansen: - There was one who owned the boat and took the girls. There was also a policeman. He asked if we could not meet the police at Storøya since they had problems with the boat.
15:47 Brevik sit still and keep track of Hansen's testimony.
15:47 Oddvar Hansen: - We drove across and passed Utvika camping. It rained and was difficult to see, so we were afraid to run on some of the water.
15:48 Oddvar Hansen: - So we saw the police in an open jeep that went very slowly. It was the boat to the Bear canyon. He had met the rubber boat had first stopped by the police on board.
15:48 Breivik discuss with one of his defenders.
15:49 Oddvar Hansen says that the police had taken over the boat to the Bear canyon, while he was over in the dinghy to the police.
15:49 Oddvar Hansen: - They waved at us. We were there to meet them, so there was no doubt about what we should.
15:50 Oddvar Hansen: - The police officer on shore sent another after us. So jump four policemen into our boat, while it was six on board the Bear's boat.
15:50 Oddvar Hansen: - Then I head to Utøya.
15:51 Oddvar Hansen: - We drove from the other boat. When the cop asks if I am known on the island, if we know who "he" is. If I know what kind of weapons the perpetrator is.
15:51 Oddvar Hansen: - I answered as best I could and asked where I was going to put them ashore. The policeman said that I could choose.
15:52 Oddvar Hansen: - I was very focused on what we did and was not really scared. I made a choice and ran into the pier at Utøya. That I thought was the safest since it a little before had been shot on the other side of the island.
15:53 Oddvar Hansen: - Two police officers from Delta put in front of the boat with the shield, while we set as low as we could.
15:54 Oddvar Hansen: - We expect that the perpetrator would shoot at us when we entered. It was a very special trip to our shores.
15:54 Oddvar Hansen: - Our goal was to get the police as quickly as possible.
15:55 Oddvar Hansen: - When we got to shore, the officers went ashore. A man came running down the pier. The policemen checked him quickly and sent him to the boat.
15:55 Hansen shows the mouse pointer to a young person comes running down to the boat.
15:55 Oddvar Hansen: - I thought we could be there for so long. So I put the boat in reverse. There was one out of the forest, but I thought it was probably there since the police had arrived.
15:56 Oddvar Hansen: - The second boat arrived a few minutes later. Then they heard shooting again.
15:56 Breivik discuss with one of the defenders.
15:57 Oddvar Hansen: - I drove back to Storøya and when we met one boat with six or seven police officers in the boat. They jumped over to us, while the boy we had with us from Utøya skipped in the other boat.
15:57 Oddvar Hansen: - As we drove into Utøya in the same place and I would not be as excited as the first time.
15:58 Oddvar Hansen: - Back on Storøya I met my partner. I ran over to her and she jumped into the boat. I knew I had little gasoline on the boat, it was something that bothered me. So I had called my uncle and asked if he could come down with gasoline.
15:59 Oddvar Hansen: - Gradually my uncle with gasoline. Then Thorbjorn MS into the country side. The skipper stood there and I asked what happened to him. He was very marked, and said that his partner was shot. Then it went cold down the back.
16:00 Oddvar Hansen: - When it started to get some police officers there. I asked him who had the command if they said something on the lines if he were taken, and if we run out again.
16:01 Oddvar Hansen: - On the quay there was the car to the perpetrator. We stood there a little while it came in with the boat people from Utøya. Those who were in the boat asked the police hysterical if it were real.
16:01 Oddvar Hansen: - It was very special.
16:01 Breivik smile when Hansen says the young people asked if the officers on shore were real.
16:02 Oddvar Hansen: - So we followed some of the youngsters up to the road. While we were there heard my partner that they needed ambulances to the development camp. They replied that they did not know where it was. She asked if it would be with them. which she did.
16:03 Oddvar Hansen: - Then, just over at 19, I was driving along with two police officers to the island again. We were told to circle the island.
16:05 Oddvar Hansen: - We drove to the Pride Mountain and one of the policemen charged with the land. I asked if we should run towards the shore with them we saw the island. The people sitting there perfectly still.
16:05 Oddvar Hansen - The policemen jumped on land. On the way out I saw several lying around by Bolshevik. Unfortunately, they were not alive.
16:05 Hansen is clearly marked when he talks about the dead.
16:06 Oddvar Hansen: - I can also say that in the second round against the island, my partner called me. She told us that he had saved was told that the perpetrator was wearing police clothing. I told the two of Delta, they said they were aware of it.
16:07 Oddvar Hansen: - I was thinking a little bit and it dawned on me that I was afraid. I thought then that I should not run into the country since I did not know what the perpetrator looked like.
16:08 Oddvar Hansen - I was told that things were not yet clarified. So I agreed with the fire department that we could not be located in a cluster of boats, so we decided to disperse us.
16:09 Oddvar Hansen: - I went back and took my partner and drove back towards Utøya. Again was told that the situation was not clarified. So there was not much we could do.
16:10 Oddvar Hansen: - We were cold so we drove home and got dry clothes before we drove to the pier again and offered us help.
16:11 Hansen gives details on the map where he docked and where he met other boats.
16:11 Oddvar Hansen says that it is now getting a lot of helicopter traffic in the air.
16:11 While sitting on a country from the Delta and ensure, as we realize that it is not yet certain.
16:11 Holden: - What happens next?
16:12 Oddvar Hansen: - We found a lot of clothes in the water.
16:12 Oddvar Hansen: - Finally, there was again some equipment from Delta to our boat. So for 22-30-hours drive to Storøya and shall submit this. Then there was maybe a seven or eight people died on land at Storøya.
16:13 Oddvar Hansen: - On the way home we drove past the Utøya again. There, we saw many dead that we had seen earlier. Among other things Sydspissen.
16:13 Oddvar Hansen: - What we looked at Sydspissen bothered us much since we had been there and made a choice.
16:13 Holden: - You said somewhere that it was a tough choice to leave Sydspissen when you saw there were people there?
16:14 Oddvar Hansen: - In retrospect, it bothered us that those who waved at us the first time may have been killed.
16:14 Oddvar Hansen: - If our choice was the right thing is hard to say. But the fact that we did something was the most important.
16:14 Holden: - You have been told what you and your boyfriend did this afternoon and evening. Can you conclude by telling a little about how the time until today have been?
16:15 Oddvar Hansen: - Time until today has consisted of ups and downs. Finding meaning in what happened there. For us ordinary people it is not easy to comprehend. It has sometimes been tough.
16:15 Breivik biting her lip and swallow when Hansen says that it is not possible for ordinary people to understand what has happened in Utøya.
16:16 Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh: - You have done a tremendous job.
16:16 Oddvar Hansen: - There are many who have. It's not just us.
16:17 Lawyer Hege Salomon asks how some of those he rescued had it and behaved.
16:17 Oddvar Hansen: - I felt that they were very afraid. She lay one flat on the floor right behind the boat. She had no clothes on so we put a jacket on her. She did not say much other than it was a policeman who shot.
16:17 Oddvar Hansen says that it has been good to talk to those he had with the boat later.
16:17 Solomon: - How do you feel you have received follow-up has been?
16:18 Oddvar Hansen: - In retrospect, we were talking with the others who were there. It was very important.
16:18 Lawyer Yvonne Mette Larsen: - It has a lot of talk about our volunteers, boaters. Can you say when you and your partner were on the water?
16:19 Oddvar Hansen: - I know because that Jens Stoltenberg said at the news channel did we reacted. Then we went around a minute on the clock 18
16:19 Larsen: - Do you have any sense of how many were on the water either before or afterwards?
16:20 Oddvar Hansen: - When we came to Reiulf we saw boats on the outer side of Utvika camping. Maybe four five pieces. When they were out and picked up people from the water. Therefore, we chose to travel on the back of the island.
16:20 Larsen: - How many would you estimate those we aid lawyers have called "boat people"?
16:20 -Oddvar Hansen: - I do not think there were more than ten boats before he was arrested. There were several afterwards.
16:21 Oddvar Hansen: - I do not think any boats had come out long before the clock 18
16:22 Breivik: - He informed that it had fired shots at the boat when he attempted to rescue ... I observed that there were some boats.
16:22 Breivik: - When I snapped a few shots at the boats. They were meant as warning shots. My rule was that if they did not move then I would shoot to hit.
16:22 Arntzen: - It is listed.
16:23 Oddvar Hansen finished his statement and leaves the witness stand.
16:23 Next witness, Bjørn Magnus Jacobsen Ihler, takes place in the witness box.
16:23 Arntzen encourage the players to concentrate question was asked, since the law is powerful in overtime.
16:24 Arntzen requesting personal details and request that the witness makes insurance.
16:25 Holden: - We will first hear a little about the background that you were on Utøya.
16:25 Bjorn Ihler: - I am a member of AUF. This was the third time I was on Utøya. Has been in the AUF since I was 16 or 17
16:25 Bjorn Ihler: - I came to Utøya Thursday, 21
16:26 Holden: - How did you experience the security checkpoint on their way to Utøya?
16:27 Ihler: - I had a Leatherman. They said they had been stricter. They confiscated a pocket knife.
16:27 Holden asks Ihler to explain what happened 22 July.
16:27 Breivik karkateristerte Utøya a indoktrineringsleir during his comments to the witness Hansen.
16:28 Bjorn Ihler - I was at a meeting on the situation in Western Sahara as we were gathered in the Great Hall to be informed of what had happened in Oslo.
16:28 Bjorn Ihler: - A friend showed me pictures from the ministries. Then I realized it was serious what had happened. I wondered what this was and what had happened.
16:29 Bjorn Ihler: - It struck me that this could be political terrorism. Then I thought that Utøya could be the next target.
16:29 Bjorn Ihler: - At the same time we learned that Utøya was safe and that it was the safest place to be then.
16:29 Bjorn Ihler: - We called the families to see if all was well. I borrowed a phone and called my parents.
16:30 Bjorn Ihler: - When we met someone who had made the same boat as the perpetrator. They were in shock at what had happened.
16:30 Bjorn Ihler: - Then came a yellow in the west and to collect us. I hoped and thought it was someone joking when we heard shots.
16:31 - Bjorn Ihler: When we were in camp so I Breivik comes over the top and started shooting people. When I was at the extremity of the camp. Maybe 75 meters away. I do not know who was shot.
16:32 Bjorn Ihler: - We ran into the forest while we heard that it was shot behind us. I suppose it was shot at us.
16:32 Bjorn Ihler: - When I got over the hill, I called my dad. I had contact with him all the time while it lasted. It was totally unreal.
16:33 Bjorn Ihler: - Although I had seen a shot, so it did not dawn on me what was going on before then.
16:33 Holden: - Were you with someone else at this point?
16:34 Bjorn Ihler - I was with a good friend of mine. Bano Rashid was also with us. I do not know where she was off.
16:34 Holden: - In a police interrogation of 29 August explains that Bano ran south.
16:34 Bjorn Ihler: - It is true that Bano ran south. I remember that she was terribly frightened and upset. It was so far too.
16:35 Bjorn Ihler: - We went north on the Love Trail. Me and my friend Kjetil told people to be quiet and take off their colorful clothes .... some stood up and spoke. We asked people to remain in hiding.
16:36 Bjorn Ihler: - On the way to the pump house was a steep hill. There I met a little boy about 8 years. He looked completely lost out. Kjetil cared for him and we decided to hide on the upper side of the Pump House.
16:37 Bjorn Ihler: - We could communicate with those set down by the pump housing by means of mime and hand signs.
16:37 Bjorn Ihler: - The little boy had panicked. There was something ormegress where we were partially hidden from. I hold him in the mouth.
16:38 Bjorn Ihler: At some point heard Kjetil some up in the woods that was upright and had dark clothes. We threw it from us because we could not be detected. We chose to keep hidden. We heard shots all the time and we were terrified.
16:39 Bjorn Ihler: - We were more in that group. Me and Kjetil and some others. After a while we heard gunshots coming closer. Then came a large group of people running. There we met another young boy.
16:40 Bjorn Ihler: - The two boys had not seen their fathers for a long time, so they were keen to find them ..
16:40 (The fathers were Berntsen and Havdal who was among the first to be killed.)
16:41 Bjorn Ihler: - At one point we had to leave the Love Trail. There was a lot of people who were shot there. The ten people were found dead there.
16:41 Bjorn Ihler: - Amidst the dead there was a cell phone and called. It's probably what has made the biggest impression on me from what happened on the island.
16:42 Holden: - How did the two boys in this vision?
16:42 Ihler: - I think the boys, like me, blocked it in a way out.
16:42 Bjorn Ihler: - After this I got tunnel vision. I just wanted to keep track of where the two young boys. Shortly after we came up on the southern tip of the island.
16:43 Bjorn Ihler: - I borrowed a phone. We saw that there were boats in the water and a helicopter in the skies above us. We tried to signal, but we did not know if it was safe.
16:43 Bjorn Ihler: - The boys told me they would never return to Utøya. The island was destroyed them.
16:44 Bjorn Ihler: - I called my dad again.
16:44 Bjorn Ihler: - So, we met one in police uniform. As I turned around I saw that he raised his rifle. Then I jumped in the water, so did the boys too.
16:45 Bjorn Ihler - I was wearing a sweater that made me fell, I got it off me.
16:45 Bjorn Ihler: - I saw that he was referring to me and shot. Then I felt that the soul left the body. It's a completely unreal feeling to know that, now I'm not anymore. Now it's over.
16:46 Bjorn Ihler: - When I stood upright in the water. There was blood in the water around me.
16:46 Bjorn Ihler - I and another group was swimming against some bushes that were beyond referring to the perpetrator.
16:47 Bjorn Ihler: - I was sitting partially in the water. As there were three others around the same time. After a while, one boy and said, He saved me, his saved me.
16:48 Bjorn Ihler: - As I perceived it was a long time as we sat in the water. WE were really cold and it was long before we heard some shots. Then we would crawl up on land again.
16:48 Bjorn Ihler: - We were sitting on some stone slabs and wait. We tried to deflect the two young boys' attention. We tried to talk to them about completely different things to protect them.
16:49 The experts are keeping tabs on Breivik.
16:49 Bjorn Ihler: - The whole situation was so absurd that we did not want to take it magic. We talked about what we wanted for Christmas, and the two young boys said they did and built a tree house at home.
16:50 Bjorn Ihler: - While we sat there was a real police officer through the woods. But it did not we. We were on the way back out into the water. He noted that he would not shoot us, and took the gun behind her back.
16:50 Bjorn Ihler: - He gave a message to us that: Madman's all!
16:50 Breivik smile when Ihler said the policeman said "Madman is taken."
16:51 Bjorn Ihler: - I tried to get him to take the boys side we felt unsafe. All felt it, but I would get the boys to safety. But he said they had to replace the injured first.
16:51 Bjorn Ihler: - Eventually there were five to six police officers through the woods. I think they began to aim toward the woods, I thought that there could be more and I thought we still were not sure where we were.
16:52 Bjorn Ihler: - One of the policemen took us to Sydspissen where we were taken aboard a boat that transported us to the mainland.
16:52 Holden: - What happened on the mainland?
16:52 Bjorn Ihler: It was like a scene out of a disaster movie. People lay on stretchers and screaming. It was chaos.
16:53 Bjorn Ihler: - I would not let go of the boys before I knew they were in safe hands. I brought them along and we got a quilt, which I took over three of us.
16:54 Bjorn Ihler: - Then came the Health Express bus. We sat at the front of the bus and I called my dad again. I told him that we were on our way to Sundvollen hotel.
16:55 Bjorn Ihler: - There we were registered and incorporated. I was asked to take me a hot shower. I and a friend found a room. So we tried to watch TV and update us about what happened.
16:55 Holden: - You will be picked up by your parents at midnight-01-times and go home. How was the time afterwards?
16:56 Bjorn Ihler: - The first period afterwards was absolutely terrible. I sat at home while everything that happened happened Sundvollen. I had a breakdown and my parents drove me to the emergency room.
16:56 Bjorn Ihler: - There were police barricades. It was scary to see the police again. The confidence I had with the police before Utøya was destroyed by Breivik.
16:56 Bjorn Ihler: - To regain the confidence of police in uniform has been very difficult.
16:57 Bjorn Ihler: - In the emergency room, I met another who had been on Utøya. There, we were told that there would be a gathering of survivors.
16:57 Bjorn Ihler: - After having talked with a psychologist at the doctor I went back home.
16:58 Bjorn Ihler: - The name lists of the casualties began to come out, it was important to talk about what we had experienced. Perhaps the most important was when we were talking about completely different things.
16:58 Bjorn Ihler: - We went to the movies, but I remember not even what movie we saw.
16:59 Bjorn Ihler: - Two weeks after 22 July was a good time to do other things.
16:59 Holden: - From cinema to today, how has it always been?
17:00 Bjorn Ihler: - In the post I struggled to cope with loud noises. I struggled to see the police, ambulances, the sound of helicopters. Yes, the things that brought redelsen from Utøya back again.
17:00 Bjorn Ihler: - There have been periods that have been almost as bad as the time immediately afterwards. The currently I have these I can not decide what to do. The ability to take decisions away at times.
17:00 Holden: - You were going to Liverpool. How has it gone?
17:01 Bjorn Ihler - I was going back to studies in September, I received much help in this. I did it too.
17:02 Ihler said he feared such since he lived near where the coordinates Breivik had hidden in the manifesto was.
17:02 Bjorn Ihler: - In Liverpool, where I study, I had to change apartments because of this.
17:04 Bjorn Ihler: - I think what made me most frustrated was that the Justice Minister (Storberget editor.) At one point called one of the lawyers assistance and asked her to change the rhetoric. This made me worried for a faulty development.
17:05 Bjorn Ihler: - I still study in England, but have not been there a long time. Just before Christmas I had a breakdown and was unable to do anything. I went home on Christmas break and did engage in what I like to engage with.
17:06 Bjorn Ihler: - I like to run the shows and theater and got a job in connection with a performance at the Opera.
17:07 Bjorn Ihler: - But sometimes I find very great sorrow. At one point I would return to school in England, but I was unable to attend or writing tasks I should.
17:08 Bjorn Ihler: - I came back to Norway, but was unable to do anything. I tried to work, but was frustrated and had a very intense feeling of something.
17:08 Holden: - Can you say a few words about the thoughts you have about the future?
17:09 Bjorn Ihler said he relies on to do things to stay active. It helps a little on the situation.
17:09 Bjorn Ihler: - In the future I want to be theatrical or film producer. I want to maybe make entertainment films with a political underlying message.
17:09 Holden: - The two boys. Have you had contact with in the future?
17:10 Bjorn Ihler: - I have met them once. We played playstation and they beat me .. I'm not so good at such games.
17:11 Bjorn Ihler: - It was good to see that they were fine. They are wonderful boys.
17:11 Defender Geir Lippestad: - You have previously said that on several occasions as the Utøya Breivik. Do you remember anything more about how you experienced it?
17:12 Bjorn Ihler: - He was very calm, calculated and moved controlled. No sudden movements or veiving. He lifted quietly and lifted his rifle.
17:12 Lippestad: - When you say calculated. Can you elaborate on this any more?
17:13 Bjorn Ihler: - I think of the calm and cold the way he moved on.
17:13 Lippestad: - You also said that one boy shouted that "he saved me, he saved me." How did you experience that situation?
17:14 Bjorn Ihler - I thought that it could be a situation where he was missed. The fact that the perpetrator had been distracted ... in retrospect I do not think there was any deliberate act to save him.
17:14 Lippestad: - How do you think the boy felt about that?
17:14 Ihler: - I think I saw that he was spared.
17:15 Bjorn Ihler: - He shouted at us. I turned to him and saw that he was in a police uniform. I had continued my father on the phone. Then I saw that Breivik raised his gun and I jumped in the water. Then the telephone with my father broken.
17:15 Lippestad: - Before he lifted his rifle, he appeared like he could be a real policeman?
17:15 Bjorn Ihler: - I understood that he was there, but then he lifted his rifle. It was perhaps talking about a nanosecond.
17:15 Lippestad: - Why do you think he said he was a policeman?
17:16 Ihler: - It was to trick us out.
17:17 Lawyer: - Did you have any impression that the boys would be spared?
17:17 Bjorn Ihler - I had no control of where the two boys at that time. I had no impression that it was intended to save him.
17:18 Ihler shows by questions from counsel how he moved on the southern tip of Utøya. Ihler mouse over multiple snapshots.
17:18 Bjorn Ihler: - You see what I think is myself. That's where we hid.
17:18 Lawyer: - Back to the Pump House. What kind of communication there was between those who kept you there?
17:19 Bjorn Ihler: - We tried to communicate via hand signals and we tried to allocate who would keep track how. We could create a kind of arrangement there.
17:19 Lawyer: - How did your mother and father? You had phone contact with them.
17:20 Bjorn Ihler: - I can not remember that I talked to my mom, but I heard her in the background when I talked to my dad. He was calm and gave me a clear message not to be completely and exposing myself to danger.
17:21 Bjorn Ihler: - They heard that I was still breathing.
17:21 Lawyer: - How long were you in contact with your father?
17:21 Bjorn Ihler: - There were about 20 minutes to begin with, but a bit more sporadically later.
17:21 Lawyer: - Did you know if the boys had contact with the other places than the Sydspissen?
17:21 Bjorn Ihler: - I think it was the only direct contact with the Sydspissen.
17:22 Bjorn-Ihler: - They understood how serious the situation was, even though they are young. They realized that they had to be quiet and not reveal where we were. Although it was difficult for them to stay in control, so they managed them very well.
17:23 Lawyer shows an image from the land, where such boys and Ihler is pictured after they had come across.
17:23 Bjorn Ihler: - At this point, I stood with the boys. I tried to still look after them. The whole situation was so far away from normal reality.
17:23 Lawyer Frode Elgesem: - When was that meeting with the boys afterwards?
17:23 Ihler: - It was in the fall. I do not know what happened with those after it.
17:24 Judge raises Arntzen court for the day.
17:24 Tomorrow the court shall deal with twelve autopsy reports, and three new witnesses will be questioned.
17:25 The court set at 09
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