2012-05-25 (TV2): Breivik Trial Transcript: Day 25: Utoya & Breivik Arrest:
Utoya Survivor: Adrian Jakob Pracon (22) | Police Arrest of Breivik: Anon Policeman | Hans Mattis Hamborg | Håvard Gåsbakk | Terje Klevengen | Ørjan Tombre | Asbjørn Rachlew
Oslo District Court: #: 11-188627 MED-05 | 25 May 2012 | Breivik Report/TV2.NO
Adrian Jakob Pracon (22): was at the Oslo bomb information meeting; heard shots, went outside and saw Breivik shoot a few people, ran through the tents to the forest to the south side of island, swam for about 100 meters then turned back; Breivik did not shoot him cause he looked 'right wing' (short hair), but later he is shot in the neck/shoulder.
Hønefoss police: Anon Policeman: details the police response to calls from Utoya about fake policeman executing kids.
Hønefoss police station: Hans Mattis Hamborg: in charge of operation on 22 July; details boat crossing and arrest of Breivik.
Hønefoss police: Håvard Gåsbakk: details their boat trip across lake, and arrest of Breivik at southern tip of island; the search for other perpetrators and the interrogation.
Delta: Terje Klevengen: crossed lake by dinghy, arrive around 18.26, start search for Breivik'; three more boats arrive; there are 25 policemen on Utøya; he receives information the perpetrator has been arrested. Subsequent investigation.
Oslo Police Sgt. Ørjan Tombre: Interrogation of Breivik to determine if there were additional perpretrators; negotations on island.
Oslo Police Sgt. Asbjørn Rachlew: Academic advisor to interrogation team.
8:46 The Oslo District Court is ready for a new day in the trial of Behring Anders Breivik.
8:48 9 the time Adrian Jakob Pracon (22) begin their explanation. Pracon is the last of the wounded from Utøya to tell the court about their experiences.
8:49 Then, five police officers testify about the arrest of Breivik.
8:50 14 takes time professor Jørg Morland from NIPH witness stand. He will give his assessment of whether Breivik was affected. This part of the trial transmitted on television. Follow the diploma on TV 2 News Channel.
8:52 Breivik has explained that Pracon was not killed because he was so "right wing" out. Read the story here.
8:54 Pracon the County Secretary Telemark AUF.
8:55 He has released his book "Heart to stone" which portrays the dramatic minutes of Utøya.
8:59 The accused arrives in courtroom 250
9:00 The court is set.
9:01 Judge Arntzen says it's a tight schedule today. In addition to surviving Adrian Pracon, six police officers talking. She calls for tightening up a little block of questions relating to his arrest.
9:02 Adrian Jakob Pracon (22) called to the witness stand.
9:04 The prosecutor asks Holden Pracon when he became a member of AUF.
9:04 Pracon says he was a member of AUF in early 2011. During the summer he was offered to be in Telemark County Secretary.
9:04 Holden: - And then there was the Utøya. Tell us what you experienced 22 July.
9:05 Pracon: After Gro had gone, we sat and relaxed. Monica came through the door and told that there had been an explosion in Oslo.
9:05 Pracon: It was an information service. After that there was a delagasjonsmøte of AUF-founders fraTelemark.
9:06 Pracon: He left the meeting and met the manager at the information building. He would buy food and drinks to serve those who would come and talk about what had happened in Oslo.
9:06 Pracon was told that a policeman was on his way to the island.
9:07 A friend lent Pracons phone.
9:07 Pracon: - As he hung up, I heard there are the two first sound. It sounded like a hammer against a steel plate. So I did not sound so serious.
9:08 Outside the booth, he looks more like running up the hill. The cry ran.
9:08 Pracon: - Curiosity took over. I walked slowly down and saw him come up the forest edge at the top of my tent.
9:09 Pracon: - By the stairs to Little Hall is a girl against him. She was wearing a jogging suit AUF.
9:09 Pracon: - As they meet, then pull the offender up the gun and start shooting. She slowly begins to reverse, but can not go another step and go into the ground while he continues to shoot.
9:10 Breivik included on Adrian Pracons explanation, but expresses no special feelings.
9:10 Pracon: - Then all began to run. The people disappeared into the woods everywhere.
9:10 Pracon: - I ran through the camp. Pracon shows right on a map where he ran.
9:11 Pracon: - It was quite a long and arduous run. The tents were close. Many fell. We could hear the bullets that whizzed over their heads and struck the bark on the trees as we approached the edge of the forest.
9:11 Pracon says that he remembers little of your run through the woods. He ran with 50-60 others.
9:12 He comes down to the water on the south side of the island.
9:12 Pracon says that he ran into the water with his clothes on. He saw people on the southern tip that undressed.
9:13 Pracon: - The panic and fear was that I was a bad decision, and it was to jump in with their clothes on. Swim was too demanding.
9:13 After 100-150 meters he had to turn back. He could not breathe. It felt as if he were suffocating.
9:14 Pracon: - More tried to turn around, because I swam in the wrong direction. Just before the countries I go under again. Then it felt as if it were the end. Then I would die.
9:14 - Drowning has long been for me the worst way to die.
9:14 Fortunately, it is shallow. He hit a rock that he can stand on and crawl toward the shore.
9:15 Pracon: - When I come ashore, the perpetrator out of the woods.
9:15 The prosecutor brings up a picture from the site that Pracon can show where he saw the defendant.
9:16 Pracon: - He stands among some small bushes. He estimates that Breivik five or six meters away.
9:16 Holden: - How was he?
9:16 - He was very particular in the hallway and stands in the water. He stood on a stone and seemed taller than he really was. He looks out over the water until he begins to cry - I'll kill you all.
9:17 Pracon: - He was red and his voice cracked almost before he cried: you will die. This was the only time he saw the defendant express any kind of sense, said Pracon.
9:17 He saw the water splash up and realized that it was not a silly weapon.
9:18 Pracon: - I was standing and watching. He seemed very determined.
9:18 Holden: - Is it still five to six feet between you?
9:18 - First he shot against the outside of the water, so he turned to me. I cried, "No, do not shoot!" He put the gun up to his cheek and aims.
9:19 Pracon - I knew the feeling of being shot. I was convinced I would die. All hope was lost.
9:19 Pracon: - As it seems like he's about to pull off, he turned and fosvinner without a word.
9:19 Immediately after the collapse Pracon.
9:20 Holden: - What was the reason he did not shoot?
9:20 Pracon: - I do not know why, and there has been a very strong impact. Why was I spared when so many were not there? It does not make any sense.
9:20 Holden: - Do you Breivik's explanation here in court did you any wiser?
9:20 Pracon: - I have probably been hundreds of theories on what this might be. The explanation I have to admit came as a surprise.
9:20 Holden: - What did he say again?
9:21 Pracon: - He said he could recognize the Marxists. He thought I saw the right wing and that he saw himself in me. It has come as a shock to me, that it has something to say.
9:22 Pracon: - The fact that he sees something as horrible to me, it .... I will not take me close by again.
9:22 Holden: - Your story does not end there?
9:22 Pracon: - Before I swam, I was convinced that this was not true. I thought it was a silly exercise. That's why I swam back.
9:22 He had not wanted to damage the phone on the swim and had put it back on land.
9:23 Pracon find the phone. He tries to contact the police.
9:24 Pracon: - Should I call my mother, who is abroad? My mother is in Skien? I chose to add the status on Facebook. It was that shot on Utøya. I love you all.
9:24 Pracon begins to respond to text messages to ask for help.
9:24 He sees Thorbjorn leave Utøya and felt completely abandoned on the island with a crazed killer.
9:25 Pracon: - It was like a ghost ship slowly until it suddenly took great speed and disappeared northward.
9:25 Pracon knew of other boats, but they would not be room enough people to get all of the island.
9:26 Pracon: - I made contact with the police at 17.59. I described the situation, that there is someone who shoots. They knew about it and had people on the road. She asked if there was only one. I asked if they were on their way by helicopter.
9:26 She said yes, they are heading in the helicopter and that it is the very best.
9:27 Pracon: - The chat was vital for me. I had to go into hiding, they were on their way. Sydspissen felt like the safest place.
9:27 Pracon: - After a while a group of other young people, estimated at between 15 and 20 They came from the back and goes against me. It is clear that they run for their lives.
9:28 - More is firmly aware of to swim. Some hide behind bushes because they have more power. Then we saw the helicopter above us. We also saw an infinite number of blue lights on shore.
9:28 Pracon - I was so thrilled that there were others. There was a girl and put a coat over me. I still had on my wet clothes and was terrified and cold.
9:29 Pracon: - I saw him shoot at Reiulf, I saw him shoot at those who swam off.
9:29 Suddenly, people are beginning to jump, duck. Suddenly, the shooting, game.
9:30 Pracon: - A lot of tread on me, the body goes into a "play dead" mode.
9:30 - I see several being shot, including a girl who was dressed by his upper body and was on his way into the water to swim away. I still remember her expression.
9:30 Pracon describes how the girl is shot several times.
9:31 Pracon: - A boy behind a bush topples over. I did not know he was shot, I saw that he articulate.
9:31 Pracon: - The shots continued intensively until it was completely quiet. I was sure everyone was dead.
9:32 The jacket was that he could have his eyes slightly up without it seemed. He sees the boots of the perpetrator which goes around.
9:32 Pracon: - Suddenly, I felt an unpleasant sensation of warmth on the right side of the head. So it feels like my whole head explode. It feels like I got a strong push.
9:32 - It was when I was struggling killed.
9:32 Holden: - Where you hit the shot?
9:33 Pracon - I was on the left side. The shot has gone behind his head and entered the neck / shoulder and stopped at the shoulder. The left shoulder, the same side as I lay on.
9:33 Pracon - I barely opened my eyes again and then he disappeared into the woods.
9:34 He tries to examine the damage. - I was very unsure whether I was alive.
9:34 Pracon: - When I discover that I am alive, I just shot in the shoulder, I'm trying to get an overview.
9:34 - I see a girl in the water and trying to help her. We shared the jacket to keep us warm.
9:35 Pracon: - A boy comes and begins to cry hysterically. We were not able to take care of him, then he disappeared again.
9:35 Pracon understood that he begged for his life.
9:35 Pracon: - I did not see when the ata second move.
9:36 Holden: - Did you hear if there was contact with Breivik and the boy?
9:36 Pracon: - There were many who cried, who pleaded for his life. I heard no contact between the screams and gunshots.
9:36 Pracon: - We find out that there are several in the bushes and also find out that it is a boy who is at the very end.
9:37 - Bodies were everywhere. We saw blue lights everywhere and thought that now it is over. That was why it seemed so pointless, it seemed as if it was over, and then this happens here.
9:38 Pracon and the girl gets an attack of gallows humor. Then see the three heavily armed police officers coming down the forest. Pracon reacted with concern, but the police took care of them and began to work to get an overview of the situation
9:38 Pracon: - I asked if they had taken him. They said they had arrested a person.
9:39 Pracon: - A white boat coming toward us, and around the hull washed the red water.
9:40 - We got quickly off and on to land. I was told to lie on a stretcher, but I could go and went on up the harbor where there was a rescue worker and checked a hold of me and began to investigate.
9:40 Pracon: - Another boy sat on a rock and rocked back and forth and was completely in shock. I'll take with him and go up the road. It was impossible to make direct contact with him.
9:41 Pracon says that he is thrown into an ambulance and taken to hospital.
9:41 On Ringerike hospitals were maybe 20 doctors and nurses outside and waited.
9:41 Pracon: - I ran right into an observation room. More doctors and nurses standing around.
9:42 - I was so influenced and shocked that I almost would not let them treat me, they had to take care of the rest. It did not hurt.
9:42 - The debrief me, and it is probably the only time I've cried.
9:42 Holden: - How many operations have you had?
9:43 Pracon tells about the treatment he received before he was operated on Sunday.
9:43 Pracon: - I think there are three.
9:43 Holden: - How is your shoulder today?
9:43 Pracon: - It is difficult to adapt to a weakened shoulder. It is painful that movement is difficult at times. I am a outdoors person and loves to move. It hinders me at times.
9:44 Holden: - And besides, how are you?
9:44 It is also difficult to perform part-time job at a bar. Pracon still thinks that he is lucky.
9:44 Pracon were discharged on Saturday and was back at work Monday or Tuesday. He handed out roses and talking to people.
9:45 Pracon: - It aroused an extreme survival instinct in me when he aimed the gun at me. Sometimes I have seen for myself that it was easier to be killed. It is a pleasure he will not get, but it is difficult.
9:46 Defender Vibeke Hein Bæra Pracon ask about the three times he looked at Breivik Utøya. - At the Cafe building so he was the first time, how he came then?
9:47 Pracon: - He had my full attention when he appeared on Utøya, I saw so clearly how he moved. That was probably why it seemed so real. There were movements that were so intense, yet so controlled. He was determined, taking long strides, went quickly but firmly.
9:47 Pracon: - He did not see me, he walked right past me, because he was busy getting to where there were more people. I have chosen to call it tunnel vision.
9:48 Pracon: - Only one time he showed signs of emotion, and there was anger. It was down at the water's edge.
9:48 Bæra: - Did he say anything?
9:48 Pracon did not hear the offender speak at the tent.
9:48 Bæra: - At the water's edge, when he saw the first time there, how was he?
9:49 Pracon: - He came out calm and restrained. The way he took hold of the rifle ... It seemed like something he could, something he would do.
9:49 Breivik note under Pracons explanation.
9:49 Pracon: - It was only when he started shouting that I was put out because it did not fit with what I had seen before. He was pale in the face, but suddenly it became red and he began to scream and shout.
9:50 Pracon: - As he aimed the rifle at me, I perceived I had eye contact. I perceived that it was an extremely long review. When he turned, there were very specific. Turn on the heel, almost military fashion.
9:51 Bæra: - You said somewhere that it seemed as if the perpetrator alternated between head and heart.
9:51 Pracon: - It may have seemed so, for there was movement on the course. I felt an intense sense of tapped on the head and heart.
9:51 Bæra: - He reviews?
9:51 Pracon: - It seemed that he made specific assessments.
9:52 Pracon: - When he charged at me, I stood in the water to the knee or hip height.
9:52 Lippestad: - You find it difficult to relate to his explanation of why he saved you. What were you wearing clothes?
9:52 Lippestad: - He has asked for a comment then, so you may get answers then. I do not know what to say.
9:53 Pracon: - What I had in me was a tight turquoise bamboo t-shirt that read "The Earth is proudly". A dark green trekking trousers with black patches on the knees and buttocks. Reminiscent of a hunting pant. Hiking boots on their feet.
9:53 Lippestad: - Was it kind of boots?
9:54 Pracon: - Yes.
9:54 Lippestad: - Was your hairstyle as it is now?
9:54 Pracon: - The hair was shorter than I have now, but relatively the same hair color. The future direction of the hair was standing, I do not know, because I was in the water.
9:54 Lippestad: - I have no further questions.
9:55 Aid lawyer asks if he gets the treatment now.
9:55 Pracon: - At the moment I have not received any treatment, I have been told to work out themselves. Has not been offered plastic surgery.
9:55 Pracon: - It oozes out splinters. I am pleased that the body repel the evil. It is something that needs to be there for the rest of your life.
9:56 Pracon: - The doctor has said that it will never be the same again. It is reduced, and I declared 10 percent disabled.
9:57 Pracon also struggling mentally.
9:57 Especially in the winter he went through a difficult time.
9:58 He felt that some accused him as he sat at a window. It went over, but has returned.
9:58 Aid lawyer asks if he behaves differently from other people.
9:58 Pracon: - Before this I was a very social person. It has now been snud head. I reject my people that will help. I have more than enough to think of myself.
9:59 - This tragedy has cost me expensive, says Pracon when he talks about how the relationship with family and friends have been changed.
10:00 Counsel for the aggrieved: - You have been to many interviews and debates, and written book. Why have you taken on that role?
10:00 Pracon have found that it has made it easier when he talks about the incident.
10:01 Pracon: - The book has been the major tool for understanding what has happened. It has helped a lot, but has also had its price.
10:01 Counsel for the aggrieved: - What have you experienced there made with your political work?
10:02 Pracon: - I would argue to say that Breivik made a mistake by saving me. I see now is really how much a society is worth, the importance of politics. The flame in the aufs logo is even greater for me.
10:02 He asked if the little boy he watched Sydspissen.
10:03 Pracon: - There is something I'm not so specific. I had seen him before. She suited my dog, came to visit with the dog the day before. It was the boy next door.
10:03 - Which state was the little boy in there?
10:03 Pracon: - He was not distant, he was present. He cried, but he was very present.
10:03 He asked if a girl in the water the first time he was on Sydspissen.
10:04 Pracon: - No, it may be that when I came to the country ... The moment Breivik stood there, it was just me and Breivik.
10:04 - Was it fired more than two shots?
10:04 Pracon: - I would say that it was fired more than two shots.
10:04 There are no more questions to Pracon but Breivik have a comment.
10:04 Pracon will be seated while Breivik comes with his comment.
10:06 Breivik: - It was a claim that I came up with the exclamation Sydspissen. I have not been verified in the police interrogation, because I do not remember it so well. But when he says it, I remember. It was to demoralize those who could swim. It was not anger.
10:06 Breivik did not have any more comments.
10:06 The court takes a fifteen minute break.
10:22 The policeman who will talk after the break is anonymous because of his position.
10:24 This police officer was among the first who came to the place on land.
10:27 On TV2 interactive overview you can see how and when police arrived Utøya.
10:28 The police officer who will talk first associated Hønefoss police.
10:28 Prosecutors Holden: - Can you tell us about what you did 22 July?
10:28 Policeman: - I work on the investigation department and crime watch on weekends. I was dressed in civilian clothes.
10:29 Policeman: - I received a sms about the bomb in the office in Oslo, and went into the break room along with some other colleagues.
10:29 Policeman: - I will remain, along with four others. Some of them were on their way home from work. Break room is located next door to the operations center.
10:31 Policeman: - We followed the news and was passionate about it. From 17.26 and 17.27, we hear a large number of phones. More goes on to answer the phone. I get told to call UEH.
10:31 Holden: - What is UEH?
10:31 Policeman: - There is an additional vaktlag heralded by larger operations.
10:31 Policeman: - The message I get is that there is shooting at Utøya. The person who shoots at the police uniform.
10:33 Policeman: - It gets very hectic. I'll get my personal protective equipment and calling for action by the leader Hønefoss police. He will face.
10:33 Policeman: - I'm calling the effort the manager and leave a message on his voicemail.
10:33 Policeman: - We take on protective equipment and take to arms.
10:34 Policeman: - The police boat is placed on a hanger.
10:34 Asked by Holden emphasizes the cop that this is the red rubber boat which was later used in the operation.
10:34 Policeman: - We staff a uniformed vehicle and leave the police station and drive towards Utøya.
10:35 Judge asks Arntzen policeman pinpoint the various events.
10:35 Policeman: - The time when 17.33, when we go to the island.
10:36 Holden: - So from your phone to get you going, it takes approximately seven minutes.
10:36 Policeman: - Yes. We are a forpatrulje to observe and report back.
10:37 The police officer - I was not aware of how Utøya lay, it is normally a quiet place. But I had seen the signs, so I had an idea where the descent was.
10:38 Policeman: - We requested that Delta had to be notified, even if we assumed that it had already happened.
10:38 Holden: - What is the reason why Delta notified?
10:38 Policeman: - It seemed to be a serious situation and it is important that emergency preparedness squad notified.
10:39 Policeman: - I asked for the phone number to one of the callers. I will get in touch with a young boy. I have not found out who it was. He said he was shot in the shoulder and hides.
10:39 Holden: - Says he is where he is?
10:40 The police officer - I do not remember much of the conversation today. There was much noise with sirens and communications and difficult to hear. I ask him to continue to hide and that we were on our way.
10:40 Holden said it was Lars Henrik Rytter Øberg police officer who spoke to.
10:41 Policeman: - We approached us and it is clear to me what is Utøya. I see heavy smoke and think that it was the right place. I thought that "someone has shot and now it burns there." It looked like it was burning in the main building, and I signed it. The call is logged in the system 17.52.
10:43 Policeman: - We arrive to the exit. There is a sharp curve and steep hill. Suddenly we are down in a confined area where we are easily exposed to the island. There was a pier there, and it is where MS Thorbjorn dock, we learn later. We pulled the car back a little and went on foot down.
10:43 Policeman: - We see a car, as we gradually get to know the defendants have used instead. The operations center asking for each observation we have of this car, which we confirm.
10:45 Policeman: - There were some people to the site, but it was just passing by. We hear gunshots from the island. We see that there are people on the swim, from the north and the southern tip. They are swimming towards us.
10:45 Policeman: - middle of the fjord is a large wooden boat, which I afterwards heard called Reiulf. It looks as if it praise with a paddle, and there are many people on board.
10:46 Policeman: - We call on them to us and that we are police. We want those to us. It looks as if it is stationary when we cry, and eventually they turn away from us.
10:46 Policeman: - I have heard two different types of weapons. A sound like a powerful handguns.
10:47 Policeman: - But I heard only one at a time.
10:47 Holden: - Does that mean you at this time thought it was just a shooter?
10:47 Policeman: - That's what I had in the simplicity of the head.
10:48 The police officer - I was more worried than the number of capacity, in light of the bomb in Oslo and that he had the police uniform. It was quiet pace shots, not guns blazing.
10:48 Policeman: - It could mean that the person was trained. But there was just one of many thoughts with me then.
10:49 Policeman: - We see that the boat Reiulf running to land a little south of us.
10:49 Policeman: - We split layers. We are looking for new tasks.
10:51 Policeman: - The traffic had to be channeled further and further into the Delta. There was a clear view across to the island and could not be regarded as printed. Meeting place of ambulances and others had to be on the road behind.
10:52 Policeman: - Reiulf have come ashore and a large number of older, maybe 10-12. I saw no serious injuries, but they were upset. They are very skeptical of me.
10:52 Policeman: - They had seen a man on the pier with weapons and I confirmed that it was me.
10:53 Policeman: - The young people had a goal and here they are alone together, and was still a goal. I had to get them away.
10:53 Policeman: - On Lien arrived I gradually boats.
10:54 Holden: - Lien is a place name that has not been stated here before.
10:54 The policeman shows an overview map where Lien farm is located in relation to Utøya.
10:55 Policeman: - I ask the owner to drive to Storøya because the emergency squad needs boats. He has not left more gasoline. There are also two other boats to the pier. They get the same message to me.
10:55 Policeman: - Without asking why, putting both full throttle against Storøya.
10:55 Holden: - What time was it?
10:56 Policeman: - 18.15 there is a audio logs where I announced that I have sent ships towards Storøya.
10:57 Holden: - You said you saw smoke from the main house, and it was recorded 17.52. When you approached the pier. And then you mention audio logs 18.15. Does that mean that in the meantime, there were no boats nearby?
10:57 Policeman: - It was not human or suitable boats in the bay where we stood. My partner considered a robot that was located at a bend away from the shore. It's basically we had in the bay.
10:58 Holden: - When the boats came, there was some thought to go right to Utøya?
10:58 Policeman: - At the time I'm alone. I have no control over the partner, and he does not have control over me. We have no connection issues and a good enough connection between us.
10:58 Policeman: - My only thought at the time is to provide boats to emergency squad.
10:58 Holden: - What happens next?
10:59 Policeman: - I pull back and meet partner. He said that he has seen the gray van described previously. Where has he seen weapons, police helmets and camel back. We think: Who we are facing here?
11:00 Policeman: - We get a message on the connection during this time period, where it stated that a perpetrator has been calling in and want to surrender. Hear, however, that it is launched shortly thereafter.
11:00 Judge asks for time stamp for it. There were no police officer.
11:01 Policeman: - As we see things happening on Sydspissen in the form of the shots fired there. Partner says he saw the perpetrator. I had a different angle. I do not see the perpetrator, but see that a person is shot in the water.
11:02 Policeman: - I also shot in the water. There will be water for cool estimates in water. I also report this on the radio. I do not know if it's landed a boat with crew.
11:02 Policeman: - Shortly after a message is given on the connection that a person is arrested. We then begin to prepare the dock for the reception of wounded.
11:03 Policeman: - I go back to the Lien farm. Ask: - Do you have gas to get me out? - We try, replies the owner. We headed out. On the way we pick up two boys that swim.
11:04 Policeman: - When we come ashore emergency squad has started the treatment of injuries. We select the most severely injured and start evacuation.
11:04 Policeman: - Here comes the at least one boat that fills up with survivors and injured.
11:04 Policeman tells of how the dead are taken out of the water.
11:05 Policeman: - Bet Leader wanted most police officers to Utøya. I was taken to the pier at Utøya.
11:06 Policeman: - We go with the two boats behind the island and begin evacuation from which there is a steep hill at the Love Trail.
11:07 Policeman: - It was eventually ordered to leave lying dead, unless they were in water.
11:07 Policeman: - Evacuation phase goes quickly, but there is much to do and takes a while.
11:07 Policeman: - I must commend all volunteer operators. I could not trace any hesitation or doubts. They saw the same horrible things we saw rescue teams.
11:08 Policeman: - It was very impressive. When we had a damaged aware, only to wave then a boat.
11:08 Holden: - What happens next, just briefly?
11:09 Policeman: - I am with the search on land at night. 06 times on Saturday morning, we are out of the island.
11:09 Holden finished with their questions.
11:10 Defender Lippestad: - The defendant testified that he was anxious to be on the quay at Utøya. Can you say more about the realism of the shooting between the pier and the pier at Utøya landsida? You were afraid of being shot at.
11:10 The police officer - I do not know at the time of any specific distance. Based on what I have learned in the police and defense, we learned that powerful handguns have long range.
11:11 Policeman: - A powerful two-handed weapons can be dangerous in the distance, my assessment.
11:11 Lippestad: - If we think the opposite way, the weapons you or Delta had: Had Breivik reason to be afraid of being shot at?
11:12 Policeman: - The weapons I had available, two 9 mm weapons, so I consider the ability to neutralize him on the distance that an impossibility.
11:12 Lippestad: - He has explained that he was afraid of being shot at, and I am keen to find realism in it.
11:12 Policeman: - It is clear the police have far more powerful weapon than we had at that time.
11:13 Lippestad: - Can you try to say more about salvoes you heard?
11:13 Policeman: - Shots Alone comes a time with 2-3 shot, other times on the series of almost ten. There is no default. It was arbitrary, but so controlled that it was almost rhythmically in between.
11:14 Policeman: - When I say quiet, it is in relation to the launch with full automatic and fast paced shooting.
11:14 Lippestad: - rate of fire and what you heard: Did you think that this was someone who knew what he was doing, or that there was a non-professional?
11:14 Policeman: - I thought most the capacity of the one we faced. In light of the government building and uniform.
11:15 Lippestad: - You said that there was a break in shooting. Did you hear the other breaks in the shooting?
11:16 Policeman: - There was no continuous shooting. It was breaks in it. It was quiet for some time after we were told that the perpetrator would surrender. So began shooting again.
11:16 Lippestad are finished with their questions.
11:16 Aid lawyers have many questions, said Hallgren.
11:16 The judge asks the lawyers assistance be limited due to time constraints.
11:17 Hallgren asked about the people who killed the police officer found on the southern tip.
11:17 The officer explains he found dead.
11:18 Hallgren asked about how the police officer found one of the dead below Kjærlighetsstien.
11:19 Hallgren asked about the reason why some of the dead were moved.
11:20 The policeman explained that some were moved partly because they were in water or in the immediate vicinity.
11:21 Breivik leads a conversation with his defense Bæra while the police officer responding to aid lawyer's questions.
11:22 Hallgren: - You saw the pier as unsafe because of the danger of fire. Did you have any thoughts to evacuate the surrounding areas?
11:22 Policeman: - To turn to homes to ask them to evacuate, was not something I was thinking of. To the extent that civilians were in the area, we would have those removed.
11:23 Hallgren: - You passed among other Utvika camping. So you boats in there?
11:24 The police officer - I was never down on Utvika camping. Utvika camp I've ever been to. From my position sees a not well over there. In this phase has not been a part of my reviews.
11:24 Hallgren: - You and your colleague differed for each team. But Rated you to go over when you arrived?
11:25 Policeman: - If we had the opportunity when we arrived, there had been a boat available at the time, I'm pretty sure we had seen it as an opportunity in the action?
11:25 Lawyer asks for Larsen time the policeman and the worm does arrived at the pier.
11:26 Larsen: - How were you equipped?
11:26 The policeman has no exact time.
11:26 Larsen: - Who put the orders on what you actually should do when you hear the shooting?
11:27 Larsen: - What do you think that your job in development?
11:27 Policeman: - My job is to take me there as quickly as possible. To provide information for the situation exists to make decisions.
11:27 Policeman: - We are trying to save lives, if we can.
11:27 Larsen: - What attempts were made to get to Utøya of you and your colleague?
11:28 Policeman: - We did not have the opportunities in the early phase.
11:28 The judge asks Larsen avoid questions about alternative courses of events.
11:28 Larsen agrees, but asks to ask some more questions.
11:29 Larsen refers to a boat owner who called the police at 18.01 to provide a boat.
11:29 The police officer - I was not familiar with this information before earlier this week. I've also been told that the correct date is 1807.
11:29 Larsen: - Did you know that it was possible to rent a boat 300 yards away, in development?
11:30 Policeman: - No. All I knew about the campsite, there was a look from the road. I put on the labor that concerned the action.
11:30 Judge Arntzen breaks into Larsen's question number.
11:30 Larsen asked why a report was written a month after the incident.
11:31 Policeman: - It is not written one month later. It is entered into the system a month afterwards. It is among other things, sent a police officer before when I was told to make it more detailed.
11:31 Arntzen allowed to discharge the witness and say the court is very much overtime.
11:32 Holden suggests who can be moved on by the witnesses.
11:32 Next witness to the schedule included the witness stand at 10.40.
11:33 Arntzen request that the examination is controlled at the point of testimony.
11:33 Larsen points out that the reports, including the time is insufficient.
11:33 Arntzen says question of responsibility is to 22 July Commission and is outside the trial frame.
11:34 It's lunch break until 12:30 pm.
12:27 Sergeant Hans Mattis Hamborg is the next to testify.
12:28 Hamburg jobs by Hønefoss police station and was campaign manager 22 July.
12:32 The judges arrive in the courtroom.
12:34 The judge Arntzen refers to a decision ruling on broadcasting. The parties submitted online. Addressed comments will not broadcast, nor broadcast of witnesses. But they allow the broadcasting of private and dedicated right-appointed experts.
12:34 Next witness brought.
12:35 The prosecutor asks Holden Hamburg talk about 22 July.
12:35 Hamburg: - Friday 22 Last July, I had allowed time. I got a call at 17.29 and asked to meet at work.
12:36 Hamburg went directly to the police station. The first unit had already gone out. Hamburg was the second car.
12:36 Hamburg was campaign manager and was responsible for the armed part of the action.
12:36 - At this point I was fully aware of what had happened in Oslo. I was also aware that the AUF had fun at Utøya.
12:37 On the way out, he told the meeting point was Utøya docked on shore.
12:37 Hamburg: - The mission was clear. We were out on Utøya and apprehend the perpetrator or men. We should perform lifesaving first aid and evacuate those who were there.
12:38 Hamburg had 6-7 men available.
12:38 The plan was that the first patrol was picked up by the others in the police boat.
12:39 Holden: - So there were six to seven policemen who you were to take over. It was four in the boat, and so should you pick up the other two. Are you considering to drop the other two and just the four of quickly?
12:39 Hamburg: - Situation The picture was very unclear. We needed our own eyes the Utøya. They were to report back what they saw something they did. I wanted to go ashore on Utøya with a credible action strength.
12:40 Hamburg: - We put the boat by Vanførhjemmet. As we are about to put out the boat, I hear the emergency squad jall in our analog circuits. I understand that they are on our side of Sollihøgda. Hamburg knows the manager and ask him to call, which he does immediately.
12:41 Hamburg change the plan when he realizes that the bear lockers squad is nearby.
12:42 Hamburg: - We drive to the police boat Tyrifjord. Patrol the land reported that they heard shots. They also smoke. On the way to Utøya brewing in the country side is modified by place of operations manager in North Buskerud. It takes place at 17.57.
12:42 Holden: - Why?
12:42 Hamburg: - The site was considered unsafe as a show place. It's probably an overall assessment of the operation panel side.
12:42 Hamburg: - When we get to the pier at Storøya, we see the flashing blue and that crews from the heater cabinet squad is ready.
12:43 - We picked up eight officers from the emergency squad in addition to Havard Gåsbakk, who is leading efforts.
12:43 Holden: - Do you know what time it is then?
12:43 Hamburg: - No. Head Action from the emergency squad takes over command.
12:43 - After a short time we have engine problems.
12:44 Hamburg: - A patrol sent two boats to the new show instead.
12:44 Holden: - This is to have eleven police officers in the boat, how would you know?
12:44 Hamburg: - The assessment was enough that we wanted to get as many people as possible to the island to implement the plan. The engine stopped, appeared to blame that we got water in gasoline. It was a very unfortunate situation.
12:45 - While there was a boat, we loaded ten people into it. It was not very fast. Then came a new boat, and we loaded up the four people in this boat.
12:45 Holden: - What time is it when the first boat to arrive?
12:45 The last boat came quickly to Utøya.
12:45 Holden: - We've got it lit up at 18.27.
12:46 Hamburg: - As we add to the Utøya, we hear shooting from the southern tip. We also see the impact in the water. We hear also that the connection device landsida see people get shot.
12:46 Hamburg: - We are five springs south of the island. We come to the school room and sees that it is shot through the window. Little we sense then that there are nearly 50 children there.
12:47 Hamburg: - We have the observation of a person. He will be called a descendant of our orders and is arrested.
12:47 Hamburg: - Right in front of me is a seemingly lifeless person. I go over to her. She is shot in the head and died.
12:47 Hamburg: - Next is also shot in the head and died.
12:48 Hamburg - I reported then that the perpetrator has been arrested, many are dead and injured, and we need helicopters soon.
12:48 Holden: - So I've told you before you got into that what happens later in the evening will be highlighted by those who come after, but you can make it short.
12:49 Hamburg - I participate in the ongoing rescue efforts on the island with a strong focus on rapid evacuation of the seriously injured to Thorbjorn Kaia in the first place and then to Storøya.
12:49 Holden does not have any more questions.
12:49 Hamburg was the Utøya to around the clock 23
12:50 Lippestad: - How do you think the accused when he was arrested? You have said that you gave you to know and he eventually complied with orders.
12:50 Hamburg: - Now I know that the police chief Gåsbakk to go further into detail about it. What I perceive is that he comes early for our orders to take your hands over your head or out to the side. He also put down and take his hands behind him and is arrested on completely normally.
12:51 Lippestad: - Did he say something special and he realized that you were the police?
12:51 Hamburg: - He had a clear understanding of it.
12:51 Lippestad: - Was he calm?
12:51 Hamburg: - Thurs the 2nd made the arrest. I did not speak with the defendant whatsoever.
12:52 Lippestad reads a statement from the police report in which Hamburg says Breivik stood calmly with his hands over his head in homemade uniforms. The arrest was undramatic.
12:52 Lawyer Larsen will know when Hamburg came to the police station.
12:53 Hamburg: - The date I have not exactly. I was dialed 17.29. I immediately drove to the station. It is about one kilometer.
12:53 Larsen: - When you went there?
12:53 Hamburg: - Not sure at the time. It's about to do to take out the quickest. I take in the overalls. The rest of the equipment and weapons, I take with me during the journey.
12:54 Larsen: - You mentioned that you talked to 17.54 emergency squad. You say that the original was changed, why?
12:54 Hamburg: - The plan is not changed. The only thing that changed are the personnel who will be involved. I had tugangspunktet 6-7 officials, but if the emergency squad arrived, it was them.
12:55 Larsen: - But if the plan had been completed on 17.54, you would have been on Utøya as late as 18.32?
12:55 Hamburg: - 17.54 is the phone call from Vanførehjemmet in Steinsfjorden.
12:55 Larsen: - Was it considered the use of boats from other places?
12:55 Hamburg: - I considered it when it was not known to me that there was a harbor there.
12:56 Larsen: - Who takes the decision that there should be immediate action, as you had planned?
12:56 Hamburg: - I think we misunderstand each other a bit. The plan is not changed. When the heater cabinet squad arrives, it is their leader who takes over the action. The plan was the same as I had.
12:56 Larsen: - You were there first, and I suppose you were the one who could make the right decision?
12:56 Hamburg: - When the action director of cabinet heaters squad arrives, it is he who takes over the management action.
12:56 Larsen: - When you wrote your report on the matter?
12:57 Hamburg: - I do not remember. Larsen said it was 21 november.
12:57 Larsen: - Why did it take so long?
12:57 Hamburg: - As I was asked to write a detailed separate report, and I did.
12:57 Lawyer Hallgren asks Hamburg ever considered whether there were several perpetrators?
12:58 Hamburg: - It is a little hypothetical. Until the perpetrator was arrested, I had no messages that indicated that there were several perpetrators. I was fully aware of what had happened in Oslo and took into account that there were several perpetrators.
12:58 Hallgren: - And how many estimated ye?
12:58 Hamburg: - After talking with youth, the picture changed to three to five.
12:58 Hallgren: - You talked about the evacuation by helicopter, how did it work?
12:58 Hamburg: - People need rapid evacuation. The only way is to use helicopters.
12:59 Hallgren: - You were aware that it was AUF camp.
12:59 Hamburg: - That I was very aware of.
12:59 Hallgren: - Have you been aware that there have been threats to the camp?
12:59 Hamburg: - I am not familiar with.
12:59 Hamburg is finished with his explanation.
13:00 Next witness is Håvard Gåsbakk, performance director at Hønefoss police.
13:00 Prosecutors Svein Holden: - When did you know that you were wanted at the police station?
13:01 Gåsbakk - I was told 17.43, when I checked the answering machine. I had been interested in another phone. I'm in the emergency unit at the Northern Buskerud.
13:01 Holden: - We have heard that you eventually end up in the boat is on its way to Utøya. Tell us about what is happening.
13:02 Gåsbakk: - After loading up in the police boat, we left port. We lay on top of a stone with the bow, which we discovered later. When we came away from the stone sank we in the water. When we run out of the water we had engine problems. There was another boat, and we loaded the crew. I was helmsman.
13:03 Gåsbakk: - It was heavy in the water and we did not speed. After a while, a new boat. Four of Delta goes into this. They set course for Utøya. The boat I was in was easy, and we had to set sail towards the island too.
13:04 Gåsbakk: - We will hear that it is launched from the southern and impact of projectiles. We see that many swimmers in the water and I think that I should avoid driving on them.
13:06 Gåsbakk: - When we go ashore shot still. We take care along the water's edge, but it is rough terrain, and we have over a plain, and on a gravel road. While we do this we cry that we are armed police. We still hear shots from the southern tip. We replace the shield man and listening. We go to school shop, and see that it is shot in the doorway.
13:07 Gåsbakk: - A few seconds later we take down. A squad sees a person who goes down in the ground closer to the water. We will take us through the scrub. Breivik is suddenly in front of us. He has close-fitting top and a pants similar to the one I have on today. His vest with magazines and wire to the ear.
13:07 Gåsbakk: - The main man calling Breivik and ask him to go down on his knees. Breivik placed in the ground. He says that he will take us and that he is not looking for us.
13:08 "I'm looking for AUF and the Islamization of Norway. This is a coup." said Breivik.
13:09 Gåsbakk: - He said that the sooner he arrived in the interrogation, the better it was to negotiate. He said he was one of three cells. The first was proposed in Oslo, the other was he, and the third had not turned yet. "It's going to be a hell of police."
13:09 Gåsbakk - I thought that now has turned to terror in Norway. I call the operations center and says that it has turned the national alarm. Breivik requesting patch because he has a wound on the forefinger.
13:10 Breivik wrinkles eyebrows when Gåsbakk says Breivik asked for a plaster to a wound on the finger,
13:10 Gåsbakk: - I said it was something we were not the priority now. "Look around you, you are dead and injured here." He gave short, specific messages as a soldier. He was not short of breath.
13:10 Holden: - Is there anything else you can tell about his behavior?
13:11 Gåsbakk: - For me, when we got down there as he had surrendered, as I perceive it. The rifle was ten yards behind him. The gun was shot out. And he said, as I said, that he was not looking for us.
13:11 Holden: - What happens next?
13:12 Gåsbakk: - I took myself down to the southernmost tip. On the way down I came across two boys and some adults. I saw fear in their eyes. Then I realized it was going to be a demanding task. The uniform which usually gives security .. the security does not exist anymore because Breivik has chased them around in uniform.
13:13 Gåsbakk: - A little boy would run away, but I ask one of the larger to hold on to him. I delivered the medical supplies on the southern tip.
13:13 Holden: - As you enter into the function as a leader in efforts Utøya?
13:14 Gåsbakk: - My job in the daily work is to be leader of the Northern Buskerud. We used to have on us different hats. After his arrest, I took the job as work leader.
13:14 Gåsbakk: - We are establishing work co manager of the main house.
13:15 Gåsbakk: - I get the message that there are many injured, and people who have hidden in the cliffs.
13:15 Gåsbakk: - I have very much contact with the leading efforts in the country side.
13:17 Gåsbakk: - It flows all the time to serve people from neighboring districts. They are in the process of search and evacuation. Also NPA, rescue dogs, divers from the fire brigade and civil defense put into the rescue effort.
13:18 Gåsbakk: - Without the volunteers, boaters, we had had a big problem. There was a large influx of evacuees.
13:19 Gåsbakk: - First, the badly injured, so those without physical injuries. We went for a watch and searched. We finished it at about 23 Then we had a figure of 72 dead, plus minus. The helicopter came in and searched with a thermal camera.
13:19 Gåsbakk - I requisitioned one hundred blankets, and again we took a watch and buried the dead. Emergency squad returned 01.30.
13:20 Gåsbakk: - It was dark and we were never sure if there were several perpetrators. I could not say absolutely that there was more, they could be hiding in caves. We had guards around the main house at night.
13:20 Holden finished with their questions.
13:20 Defender Lippestad have any questions about the arrest.
13:21 Lippestad: - He had thrown down his rifle, when you saw him?
13:21 Gåsbakk: - Yes. He had his hands out to the side.
13:21 Lippestad: - He had made himself ready to be arrested?
13:21 Gåsbakk: - That's how I interpret it. I think he had heard our cries and was ready to surrender when we arrived.
13:22 Lippestad: - You said you told him to lie down, while your co-worker said he would go down on his knees. He responded to it?
13:22 Lippestad: - You do not remember if he said anything special?
13:22 Gåsbakk: - What I remember is that he went ahead ordered Breivik knees. So I ran back and shouted that he should lie down.
13:23 Lippestad: - In his statement said Breivik that he asked if he would lie or sit on his knees.
13:23 Lippestad: - When talking Breivik for negotiations?
13:23 Gåsbakk: - It was immediately after I had put handcuffs on him.
13:23 Gåsbakk: - It was when he said that the sooner he arrived in the interrogation, he would begin to negotiate.
13:24 Lippestad: - Was there anything remarkable about him when he was talking about this?
13:24 Gåsbakk: - I asked for identification. And it is in the left hand. To me it seemed as if he had full control. There was no Norling.
13:24 Lippestad: - Was there at any point doubt that it was he who was the culprit?
13:25 Gåsbakk: - No.
13:25 Lippestad are finished with their questions.
13:25 Lawyer Hallgren: - The last was evacuated 21.30.Hvor sustained in the meantime?
13:25 Gåsbakk: - Many stay in the school building. Some stayed in the canteen building and around the island.
13:26 Hallgren: - Can you say something about how young people worked?
13:26 Gåsbakk: - They were obviously afraid. There was fear and terror. It was a fight to the death.
13:26 Hallgren: - Did you get any reactions?
13:27 Gåsbakk: - They were hysterical. In such a setting, then it will be a lot different. Some were calm and rational thought, while others were terribly afraid.
13:27 Hallgren: - You have been out on a winter before. How has this affected you?
13:28 Gåsbakk: - I had never been included in the searches, because I had to take a step back and lead the work from the main house. But Sydspissen I saw a girl who sat in a thicket. She was shot in the arms and legs. She looked like a ghost. The image has gone through my head many times.
13:28 Gåsbakk: - But so many worse things than me.
13:29 Hallgren is finished with their questions. Lawyer Larsen have any questions.
13:29 Larsen: - Young people have found that police targeted weapons against them. Are you familiar with that?
13:30 Gåsbakk: - I am not familiar with it. But based on my own situation Sydspissen I can only say that the threat was there, then you have to go with the weapon raised. You take it down when you realize that there is no enemy.
13:31 Larsen: - Is it true that police officers in full safety equipment was taken over by boaters with safety equipment?
13:31 Gåsbakk: - Boat number two, who came to the rescue, was piloted by civilians. They had no equipment.
13:31 Larsen: - What thoughts do you feel about the safety of them?
13:32 Gåsbakk: - In a situation like that you do not have an overview of, one does its utmost to help those in need. They would set up, and all honor to them. Had it not been for them we had a big problem.
13:32 Larsen: - When pulled out from the police station?
13:32 Gåsbakk: - I came out from the police station around 17.46.
13:33 Larsen: - 17.54, there were plans for an immediate action. When was the plan changed?
13:33 Gåsbakk: - It was changed during the journey from Hønefoss to the dock in the country side. I spoke with the emergency squad. I also had communications on communications.
13:34 Judge Arntzen requested that questions of time are not taken now.
13:34 Lippestad says Breivik have a comment.
13:37 Breivik: - I decided to proceed to what I call propaganda phase, where I am now, I'm still alive. I came up with a number of statements because I thought that when they saw what I had done on the island, they would be emotionally unstable. I would say that they behaved properly. I have studied police procedures to avoid konfontasjon to perform the mission before I arrived on the scene. The police did the best they could and could not have done anything more.
13:37 Holden: - Terje Klevengen: Tell us what you experienced 22 July.
13:38 Klevengen starts with a brief introduction about the emergency squad.
13:38 Emergency squad is on a daily basis under Oslo, but other poilitidistrikter can ask for assistance.
13:38 Klevengen: - We have a command control at the tactical level. This means that we decide how we will solve the missions.
13:39 - For large projects we create separate KO.
13:39 Klevengen: - We also send advisors to the Chief of Police Staff. 22. July was this done.
13:39 - The last 2-3 years we have added a lot of work in identifying threats and facilitate training.
13:40 - In relation to what happened 22 July was the type of estimate not unknown to us.
13:41 Klevengen: - 22.7 I had been working day watch and was called by my daughter who said there had been an explosion in Oslo. I called the emergency phone, but they had little information. I called the operations manager in Oslo. She confirmed that there had been an explosion, but had little information. We agreed to call the emergency squad.
13:41 Klevengen: - I'll call my bakvakt and confirms Athan is on the way to work. I'm leaving for work and is relatively fast time.
13:42 Klevengen: - As I arrive at work, pull out the first unit.
13:42 Klevengen: - We decide to call in crews of leisure.
13:42 Klevengen join car number two with callsign Delta 04
13:43 Klevengen: - When I drove into the government building, it was only when I realized the extent and how severe it was.
13:43 Klevengen working to distribute the tasks and assignments.
13:43 - My task was to make an effort in the government building. We were searching for threats, or other bombs.
13:44 Klevengen: - It was also important to assist in the search for victims. We have equipment that is suitable for this. At the same time, it was important to have a crew on hand to take the things that came up.
13:45 - I divided the crews in teams of three who started the search. The men who applied, were dressed in full gear to tackle the threats they may face.
13:45 Klevengen: - In high-rise building, it was found five people. The searches were difficult compared to that it was severely damaged, and it was physically demanding in terms of all the equipment they wore.
13:46 Klevengen also sent crews to TV2 building where there were reports of a bomb.
13:46 A total of 23 men divided into different teams in the government quarter.
13:46 Along the way he received information about a possible culprit who had left the government building. This should be a man who was wearing a police uniform or weights.
13:46 17.25 was rough search in the government building completed.
13:47 17.30 Klevengen got a phone with unconfirmed reports of shooting on the island. He was preparing to move their crews.
13:47 Klevengen: - Approximately two minutes later I get a new phone with instructions to move my troops towards Utøya.
13:48 A liaison from the POD had received a call from his daughter telling you that something happened on Utøya.
13:48 Klevengen: - Because of that one as these factors together, sent Mon emergency squad off 8-10 minutes before assistance is requested from the North Buskerud came.
13:49 Klevengen did not know exactly how Utøya was, but in his mind there was only one way to get there, and it was by car. It would take too long to get the helicopter crew.
13:49 It was hard to run out. Rain, smooth and heavy traffic.
13:50 Klevengen: - As we approached Sollihøgda, I saw that it was bad flyforhold, so we drove directly.
13:50 Klevengen: - Along the way we tried to make contact with local police. We did not succeed.
13:51 Klevengen: - I have great understanding of the throttle in any way the operations center in northern Oslo, but for us it is important to get the local police district.
13:52 Klevengen: - We solved it in the way that one of my crew called her boyfriend who ran against Hønefoss to make contact with the police. She made contact with the operations center, who called my crew.
13:52 Klevengen: - We had some challenges with communications. Northern Buskerud working in the analogue network. When we tilted the Sollihøgda, we lost contact with our cars.
13:53 - We settled onto analog circuits, but send the conditions on the analogue network is very bad in the area.
13:54 Klevengen - I got a call from my Sollihøgda by KO with the message that a possible scenario with three to five gjeningsmenn with two-handed weapon with telescopic sight and possible explosives.
13:54 Klevengen: - I also had information that the perpetrators could be wearing a police uniform. I thought it was the same group that attacked. I did not think it was the same culprit that had left the government building to Utøya.
13:55 Klevengen: - I arrived Storøya with the last car. My crews are then going aboard the boat. I go down and give some brief orders.
13:55 - We load the boat in relation to the situation, understanding we have. The desire to have a good strength Utøya.
13:56 Klevengen: - When the boat leaves Storøya, we discover quickly that it is heavily loaded and that the lack of progress. After each stop the engine, and this is regrettable. It should not happen but it happens and we have to deal with it.
13:57 Klevengen: - When it comes to loss of time, it is difficult to say exactly. But from my point of view there is no significant loss of time. The boats we got was considerably faster.
13:57 Holden: - If you had a faster boat from the start, it would have gone faster?
13:57 Klevengen: - It is very clear.
13:57 Klevengen: - We need more boats. We get hold of a boat and instructs you to connect stolen boats if necessary.
13:58 Klevengen: - A man is left on Storøya to coordinate.
13:58 Klevengen: - Those who were in the dinghy, divided into two teams.
13:59 - Boat enters the Utøya and arrive around 18.26. They are clearly in touch with young people who come to them. They receive information that a perpetrator will be located north of the island of Bolshevik.
13:59 - Boat number two contains two from North Buskerud and four from the emergency squad.
13:59 Klevengen: - They hear shots and impact when they come to the island. They start framrykning to the area.
14:00 It is by Skolestua.
14:00 Holden: - Do you have information about Breivik behavior on the site?
14:00 Klevengen: - I have no special information.
14:00 Klevengen: - He continues to go against my crew and after are not my orders right away.
14:00 Holden asks Klevengen continue.
14:01 Klevengen: - Three new boats arrive. There are approximately 5-7 minutes from first to fifth boat arrives. As there are 25 policemen on Utøya.
14:02 Klevengen create a KO at the main house. Klevengen get a new phone from his KO that it should be home-made bombs in the woods around the island. He also informed that a culprit should be ensconced in a building on the island.
14:02 At the same time Klevengen told that a man has been arrested. It does not change the threat level.
14:03 Klevengen: - When we are at the KO, the more young people against us. They describe several perpetrators and forskjelige clothing in different perpetrators.
14:03 Klevengen: - We are now entering a phase that makes great demands on the reviews to be done. Decisions must be made quickly and based on what we know at the time. Life-saving measures will in this case is to determine threats and do something with them.
14:04 Klevengen told that Gåsbakk is leading efforts and allocate tasks.
14:04 Klevengen: - More patrols are sent out in different sectors to make grovsøk. The area is too large and too complex to be early and quick control.
14:05 - At the same time patrols early in a large number of dead and injured people, so they are constantly being suspended from work.
14:05 Klevengen explains more about connection problems. The range was very poor, and it was a big problem for the crews.
14:06 - We are now searching for the perpetrators with a possible police uniform, and we can not disclose where we are. We can go at each other without us knowing about it.
14:07 Klevengen: - In Skolestua we find 47 pieces. On the southern tip, we find a large number of dead and injured. When we conducted our first, we use the boats we see on the water to evacuate them.
14:07 Boat operators are very reluctant to help. The men are wearing police uniforms, and they have seen a man with a police uniform firing. Eventually they are of great help.
14:09 Klevengen: - Approximately 50 minutes after we arrive at the island, is a helicopter from the military. I send a sniper up in the helicopter. I also use the helicopter to blow clean campsite for tents to make the area more clearly.
14:09 Klevengen: - There is also a boat by ambulance crews. They are helping to support the police in the evacuation.
14:10 Holden: - How are you working this evening?
14:10 Klevengen: - As soon as I think it is safe, I initiate evacuation from the island. Injured transported from various buildings from the quayside area.
14:11 Klevengen: - When everyone is gone from the island, we go a watch. Then comes politihleikopteret with thermal camera. Then we assisted with the covering of the dead.
14:11 - Emergency squad left the island at 01:30. When I was still not sure that there were several perpetrators. It was crunch hard to understand that one man could cause so much damage and dismay that we saw around us.
14:12 Klevengen thank everyone who assisted during the operation. - A special thanks to the captain of Thorbjorn, who continued to help us in a very difficult day, said Klevengen.
14:12 Defender Vibeke Hein Bæra have any questions.
14:12 Bæra: - Briefly describe what you wrote in your report, 24 July.
14:13 Klevengen: - What I explained in the report gave an overview of what happened. If there are details about the arrest, I refer to my team leader. But I can reproduce it.
14:14 Bæra reads from "We became aware of a person who we quickly realized could be the perpetrator. He had his hands out to the side. Man seed all the commands from the police. A weapon was behind him and the other he had in hand, it was not charged ".
14:14 Klevengen: - There, I mean one that can cause so much destruction, possess capacities to be an opponent as we apprehend him.
14:15 Klevengen: - I think it's such an extent that it probably would be more behind.
14:15 Bæra: - Now that we know that it was a culprit, what do you do?
14:15 Klevengen: - He must have spent time and have acquired the knowledge to plan such an attack.
14:15 Bæra: - What kind of knowledge one must have? You have seen both places.
14:16 Klevengen: - He has to acquire knowledge. To make such a device that does so much damage is done in a jiffy. He must have the will to do so.
14:16 Consequences: - The access from Oslo to Utøya in such a situation must be difficult, what do you think about it?
14:17 Klevengen: - There, I have no special considerations. It's Friday afternoon with heavy traffic.
14:17 Consequences: - All part of such an operation must have been thought through?
14:17 Klevengen: - That is correct.
14:17 Lawyer Larsen wonder if he has time when rescue personnel arrived.
14:17 Klevengen: - Do not have time for it.
14:18 She does note that they have issues, but notes that she has been told not to ask questions that go under 22 July-Commission's work.
14:19 Breivik: - I can confirm what he says that they were a hundred percent convinced that there were several perpetrators. I said it was just me, but they did not believe me. Thank you.
14:19 The court takes a break to 14.40.
14:42 The negotiations continue.
14:42 Ørjan Tombre is the next witness.
14:42 He is a police sergeant at the Oslo Police.
14:43 Prosecutors Holden: - You were called to Utøya. What was the reason why you were asked to come?
14:45 Tombre: - I work at a department for special operations where we work with information gathering. The first message came, we had not been told Utøya yet, we were ready for a car bomb attack in Oslo.
14:45 Holden: - At 19.20 it says in the report that you were ordered to travel to Utøya to start conversations. What is the reason that the conversation taking place on Utøya and not on a police station?
14:45 Held: - There were several reasons. Our job was to find out as soon as possible if there were multiple perpetrators.
14:46 Tombre: - There was a sharp situation and to take him to the mainland would take a lot of crew.
14:46 Holden: - What do you call him?
14:46 Tombre: - In the main house, the second floor.
14:47 Holden: - What did you first impression of Breivik?
14:47 Tombre: - We took him to the outside of the building at 2015 emergency squad.
14:48 Tombre: - He was concerned that he was executed, he said that if we were to shoot him, we could do it on the ground floor. He seemed scared. We denied that we were going to shoot him.
14:48 Holden: - That he has taken means that he will dehydrate and die within a few hours?
14:48 Tombre: - He said he was going to die of dehydration because he has taken the e-stack.
14:49 Tombre: - When we had clarified that he was fired and would not die of drugs he had taken, he was more calm and relaxed.
14:50 Holden: - Was he afraid of anyone but themselves?
14:50 Tombre: - As he said he was afraid of the family, especially her mother. I do not remember who would kill them.
14:50 Holden: - Was chipped finger a theme?
14:51 Tombre: - It was a theme, not very far into the conversation. He complained that he was bleeding on a finger. He said he could stand to lose so and so much blood. It was a small cut. We sat on a patch, so it was okay.
14:51 Holden: - How he came across? Was he cooperative?
14:51 Tombre: - To a limit. He talked a lot. He said that he could give us around 90 percent, but would withhold something that negotiation basis.
14:52 Holden: - Did he say anything about specific threats? We have previously heard of cell 2 and cell 3
14:52 Tombre: - He was mentioned that there were three cells. He said that what had happened that day was only considered to be fireworks. If we were to save lives, we had to listen to him.
14:52 Holden: - Knights Templar were mentioned. Tell us about it.
14:52 Tombre: - He claimed to be the commander of the Knights Templar. He was aware that he represented the organization.
14:53 Holden: - How do you perceive it?
14:53 Tombre - I had not heard of it, but it does not necessarily mean that it does not exist.
14:53 Holden: - Did you see any jewelry or something like that on the defendant?
14:53 Tombre:-He had a round symbol, which he said was a symbol for the organization. He had it around his neck.
14:54 Holden: - We know that there was at least one picture of Breivik sitting in a chair in this building. How was it at?
14:55 Tombre: - It was a bit into the interrogation, so there were some colleagues from the NCIS to make some examination of the defendant. The DNA was secured and they were bulletproof his clothes. He was very unwilling to be photographed.
14:56 Tombre: - But the pictures were taken. We have a routine that only a year and a garment should be removed at a time. But he was eager to get them off. We were afraid he had explosives internally. But we had adjusted the pace and he took off his clothes.
14:56 Holden: - What happened next? You said he was reluctant to be photographed.
14:57 Tombre: - As he stood in boxer shorts, he was different. Then he would pose for the camera, such as bodybuilders do.
14:57 Tombre demonstrate in court how Breivik posed for the camera.
14:57 Holden: - How do you perceive the situation?
14:57 Tombre: - In another setting, completely ridiculous. I did not understand, it was difficult to understand.
14:57 Holden: - How would you describe the conversation with him?
14:58 Tombre: - If we disregard the contents, it was a good call. He was nice to talk to, he responded to being approached. It was a special call.
14:58 Tombre: - We had a lot of questions. He came into the many political things, which had no mandate to do our. But when he got a hearing, he explained himself well.
14:59 Holden: - How would you describe the way he performed his message on? Was he specific, clear, confused?
15:00 Tombre: - As I perceived it, he was very clear.
15:00 Holden read from a report that says that he appeared to be completely clear and reflected.
15:01 Lippestad: - Said health care that he had to get water?
15:01 Tombre: - There were health professionals who said that he would be liquid. They Googled the substances he had taken.
15:01 Lippestad: - What he was most concerned to get the negotiations?
15:01 Tombre: - He called it "two requirements" list, including a computer with word.
15:02 Lippestad: - You say that he explained himself adequately and easily. Was it a hallucination, something remarkable that you responded to?
15:02 Tombre - I responded that he was concerned with the cut finger. But he påropte not to see things we do not so.
15:03 Defender consequences: - The purpose was just to get ascertained whether there were multiple perpetrators. What did the defendant to it?
15:04 Tombre: - He said quite early that there were more explosives on the island. When we asked about the farm he rented, he said that there was no danger for the police to go there.
15:04 Consequences: - "This is a closed chapter," says Breivik. He also said something about the mission. What he said about the political purpose?
15:05 Tombre: - He talked about depriving the Labor power and stop the anti-Islamization.
15:05 Bæra read from the report on the interrogation. It is about a conservative revolution.
15:05 Bæra: - Do you remember how long the interrogation lasted?
15:05 Tombre: - I think we were back in Oslo for 4 days?
15:06 Bæra: - examine lasted from 20.10 to 04.50.
15:06 Hallgren: - he indicated that it was difficult to commit the murders?
15:06 Tombre: - He said it was a terrible day. I think he said it was a fucking thing I thing to do, but that it had to be done.
15:06 Hallgren: - Did he express sympathy for the victims?
15:06 Tombre: - No, he called it Marxist fry.
15:07 Lawyer Larsen: - How long are you with Breivik at this stage?
15:07 Tombre: - A bit on and off for the entire period.
15:07 Larsen: - Did you ever thought about his health condition?
15:07 Tombre: - No.
15:07 Larsen: - Was there ever any reflection by calling health care?
15:08 Tombre: - It was close with health professionals on the floor below us. But I can not remember that we considered to call for any extraordinary.
15:09 Agnar Aspaas ask Breivik's fear of dying. - Was there anything that appeared later in the interview?
15:09 Tombre: - He expressed that he was afraid of dying when he was arrested. He also talked about the family would be affected.
15:09 Tombre: - I did not think anything about who it would be that affected them.
15:09 Torgeir Husby: - ??What was it about the content of the conversation you reacted?
15:10 Tombre: - It was a bit flippant said. But it was what we talked about. He had done what he has done, except that we not know the extent then. We wondered whether more should have to die. Are there more perpetrators, the explosives?
15:10 Terje Tørrissen: - It is not to say that it was the meaning, there was more safety concerns?
15:11 Tombre: - It was a long conversation and it was special.
15:11 Tørrissen: - How do you perceive these political statements?
15:11 Tombre: - There was not time and space to reflect as much then. We reported what he said to the staff in Oslo.
15:12 Prosecutors Holden has a follow-up questions regarding the Knights Templar. - Breivik called himself Commander. He called it other things?
15:12 Tombre: - I can not remember it.
15:12 Holden will announce a sequence from the call.
15:13 Holden read a passage from the interview where Breivik call themselves judges.
15:13 Tombre: - I can not remember the titles he gave himself.
15:14 Judge Heather asks if the room where the interrogation took place.
15:14 Tombre: - The room consisted of a table, a sofa and some chairs. We placed Breivik in an armchair, with his back against a veranda.
15:15 Heather: - We have heard that this was a pretty long interview. He changed his mood, the mood during the interrogation?
15:15 Tombre: - He said he was tired. But after the initial stage, the mood stable.
15:15 Heather: - Did he express emotion during the hearing?
15:15 Tombre: - He said it was a terrible thing, but that it had to be done. He said that his life was over.
15:16 Heather: - You mentioned this with posing. Was taking pictures while he posed?
15:16 Holden: - The answer is no. It was not taken pictures of it.
15:17 Heather: - Can you remember whether he used words and phrases that you had trouble understanding?
15:17 Tombre: - Yes, he did. There were many long words, and I do not always understand the exact meaning.
15:17 Heather: - Gave him an explanation that made you understand the content?
15:17 Tombre: - Both the. Sometimes he elaborated it, sometimes not.
15:17 Heather: - Lo he ever?
15:17 Tombre: - He smiled and chuckled again.
15:18 Heather: - What was it that made him laugh or smile?
15:18 Tombre: - It was a little small talk during this long conversation. It was in the frequencies, he smiled and laughed, not when he talked about what he had done.
15:18 Arntzen: - Did you get the impression that he understood what he had done?
15:18 Tombre: - Yes.
15:19 Bæra want to read up on anything in conjunction with the prosecutor read out the passage from the interview.
15:21 Bæra reads a passage where Breivik confirms that he knows how the Norwegian legal system works.
15:21 Larsen: - What was the purpose Breivik 22 July?
15:21 Tombre: - I understood that it was part of the subject of his, to protect the Norwegian people.
15:22 Larsen shows the log from the interrogation where Breivik call their actions terrorism.
15:23 Tombre: - I remember the sequence. I'm not sure if he had used the word terrorist before. He was willing to give us much information, but not all.
15:23 Larsen: - Is he thinking that this is the terrorist?
15:24 Tombre: - He knew what he had done, it is my clear opinion.
15:24 Breivik will come with a comment, but Arntzen stop him.
15:24 Tombre finish his explanation.
15:24 - I decide when to make a comment, says Arntzen.
15:26 Next witness is Asbjørn Rachlew. He was questioned leader.
15:26 Rachlew is a police sergeant at the Oslo Police.
15:27 Rachlew was the academic advisor to the interrogation team. He is told by Holden to talk about work.
15:28 Rachlew: - My first task was to evaluate the first interrogation we were on track.
15:29 Rachlew: - The first interview was good. They were in an extreme situation, managed to establish contact with Breivik. My job was to pick out several avhørere so we could rotate. We knew it was going to be long and arduous questioning.
15:29 Rachlew: - Later, I evaluated the questioning behind the mirrors, and followed the interrogations.
15:30 Rachlew: - In addition, the extensive preparation for each interview. There were theme-based questioning. We tied ourselves to the experts for each of the relevant topics.
15:32 Rachlew: - You might think, based on the case that it was a simple investigation since the perpetrator was apparently arrested, but Breivik threatened that it would be more action. We had to take him seriously at the highest.
15:33 Rachlew: - We have received expert assistance from the United Kingdom.
15:34 Rachlew: - We were advised to remember the families and that it was important to get all possible information to help with answers. It is also important from a historical perspective of prevention.
15:34 Breivik has gone through 31 interviews, in 220 hours.
15:35 Rachlew: - The aim was to obtain information from him, not to control him. The first six months it was important to let him speak. In recent interviews, we more pressure, and confronted him with what he had said earlier.
15:36 Rachlew: - We have followed him closely in court. The Breivik you have been familiar with, is the same Breivik we have seen. We have more nuance and had more time with him.
15:37 Rachlew: - He is quiet, restrained and hardworking. He arrive with their role and to respect ours. He is careful, including fluid intake.
15:37 Rachlew: - He is reticent when it comes to KT and the other cells. In addition, some aspects related to the family. This, he reasoned. Otherwise, he has been cooperative.
15:38 Rachlew: - He is good at explaining himself. Initially, some use of English words, less later. He is easy to follow when one puts his world view to reason.
15:38 Rachlew: - He is analytical and strategic.
15:39 Rachlew: - He has good memory. It's scary and unusual detail. He is cold and pragmatic, especially when it comes to Utøya. He is strong in the faith.
15:40 Rachlew: - He may be selfish, but also self-critical.
15:40 Rachlew: - He is concerned to justify their actions, which he describes as cruel.
15:40 Rachlew: - He has shown self-irony.
15:41 Rachlew: - If he is criminally sane, we have not had the expertise to assess. Our task is to gather information so that those who consider it the best foundation. We as the police will not go beyond the mandate.
15:43 Lippestad have questions Rachlew. He asks if the first interrogation, which took place on 23 July at the police station in Oslo.
15:44 Rachlew: - For those of us whose primary aim is to collect information, it is necessary to achieve good communication. He responded and talked. It is easy to see when two people communicate, and when they do not.
15:44 Rachlew describes the situation at the police station the day as very special, but the leader of this interrogation still managed to make contact.
15:47 Rachlew: - The fact that PC demand was granted, had a background that Breivik went straight at the throat of those who arrested him, and referred to two different requirements lists. The first was the high-flying, like power. It said he was not realistic. His other list went on more attainable requirements, such as computers in the cell and that he should not zone with Muslims.
15:47 Rachlew: - It was important for us to know whether there were other actions, and he was therefore promised this.
15:48 Rachlew: - He offered information, and we wanted to save lives. We did not know whether the action was over. He said we had to listen to him, otherwise it could be 300 other die. We had to take him in the bloody earnest.
15:52 Breivik has repeatedly said in interviews that he will not provide information that could lead to arrests.
15:53 He also says that his family situation has nothing on this case to do.
15:54 Rachlew says Breivik kept to the themes questioning the leaders had decided.
15:55 Rachlew: - Sometimes it was a part refresher, and when we eventually we broke him and respected him.
15:55 Lippestad ask Breivik change in behavior when it was put more pressure on.
15:56 Rachlew: - When was the part "that I do not want to comment." We tried to get him to talk anyway. But he was never able to provide us with information that allowed us to verify the KT network.
15:56 Rachlew: - When we had to say it went beyond his credibility.
15:57 Rachlew: - He said that "if you do not believe me, it is an advantage for me. When the shock will be even bigger next time it slams." When we said that there was a contradiction, since he had written page after page about this.
15:57 Rachlew: - He said that there were both advantages and disadvantages, but he saw that it was an oxymoron.
16:01 Lawyer Larsen asked about how the team dealt with the report that claimed he was insane. It was started a testimony that evening, after Breivik had spoken with the attorney.
16:02 Rachlew: - We put forward some parts of the report, including the conclusion.
16:04 Rachlew: - He was offended by the conclusion, but reading through the report (where it says that the experts do not believe in KT) and concludes that no more are arrested. It is an example of how he thinks analytically.
16:06 Larsen asked if they were more confrontational after the report came. Rachlew denies this and says it was only the 5-6 final interrogations they put more pressure.
16:07 Rachlew: - In one of the last interviews we took up his women. Then he gave the clear message that he thought it was poorly done that we took up so late in the day and in the last hearing.
16:07 Rachlew: - I understand the argument of his, and we stopped it when he said he was tired.
16:08 Rachlew have been following 190 hours of interrogations of Breivik. He says that there has been a need for health care for Breivik.
16:10 Rachlew tells the team that carried out the interrogations.
16:14 Experts Synne Sørheim raises questions about the Rachlew said of Breivik's analysis of the report and that the KT network was a fantasy. She says she does not recognize the Rachlew say what they wrote in the report.
16:15 Rachlew: - It is possible that I mix it with something else. When you are so make sure, so I will not say it stubbornly.
16:15 Sørheim shows that there may be a confusion with a police report which stated that KT does not exist.
16:16 Terje Tørrissen: - Is there a big difference in how Brievik appeared at the hearing on Utøya and in the car to Oslo, and the first was held in Oslo?
16:18 Rachlew: - There are no major differences. He spent some military language, and some hyperventilation sessions. We have not seen before. But otherwise he has been the person he wanted to appear to be all the way.
16:20 Rachlew: - Were you the only testimony was a major operation. The defendant himself has said that we could hold on for long. We have followed the defenders all the way. He has a great capacity for work, and have said all along that we have a lot of us to come through.
16:22 Rachlew asked to clarify that Breivik is strong in the faith.
16:23 Rachlew: - He has constantly repeated that Norway is so and so and that the actions were necessary.
16:23 Rachlew: - The reasons of his works strong.
16:25 Judge Lyng have any questions. He wants to know whether there were differences in the responses Breivik ga when he was in isolation and later.
16:25 Rachlew refers to a colleague who will testify later in the trial.
16:26 But he says there have been large fluctuations. - But he said at the start of the isolation that it was tougher than he had imagined, and would like to have a book or similar.
16:27 Rachlew: - After two weeks in isolation, he said that it was tougher than what he could train on. He said he struggled, and that morale was low.
16:27 Rachlew: - He asked for books or games.
16:29 Breivik grinning when Rachlew shows how hyper-ventilated in the very first hearing.
16:30 Rachlew: - I will not help to draw a picture of an intelligent person, but not the opposite. He appears neither in one way or the other.
16:31 Rachlew: - He knows a little about a lot. An example is the interrogation technique, which he said he had read up on. He said police have been studying techniques to interpret body language.
16:33 Rachlew: - Breivik was quite sure that it was possible to interpret body language. It is not found in the hold. However, a Norwegian psychologist trained in it, and American police also work that way. It is not taken out of nowhere, but he does not have sufficient knowledge in the field.
16:35 Breivik get the chance to make some brief comments.
16:36 Breivik: - First to Tombre explanation: There was no questioning the Utøya, there was a call for 8 hours. The page that the prosecutor presented gives a completely wrong picture of this conversation. The fact that I was afraid to die of dehydration was only in the beginning, and it was to get something to drink. The heart can actually stop.
16:37 Breivik: - When it comes to that I was afraid that my family would be affected, it was also just a few seconds until the start of an eight-hour conversation. The same with the wound I had received in the finger. I just said that I had lost much blood.
16:38 Breivik: - I stand by what I have said about the KT network. It exists and it has made all the time. But I do not want to disclose information about it.
16:38 Breivik: - Holden, using ridicule.
16:38 He is being approached by the judge to approach the prosecutor. He regrets it.
16:39 Breivik said that the police have not taken him in a lie, and that it should also be emphasized.
16:40 Breivik: - I tried to exploit the situation. What happened on 22 July was just a firework, but I was not time specific. It comes with 300 lives in the future.
16:40 Breivik: - Apart from this I have no further comments.
16:40 The court is adjourned for today.
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