Discussion: Is Breivik's Defense Counsel Negligent & Is Breivik a Masonic Patsy or Liar?
Discussion focused on following issues: (1) Will negligence by Breivik's defense counsel give cause for retrial?; (2) Proposal for an international committee for the oversight of Breivik's legal defense; (3) Is Breivik a liar or a patsy in relation to his masonic backing?
Halvor Raknes | Norway v. Breivik | 14 August 2012
Will negligence by Breivik's defense counsel give cause for retrial?
Halvor Raknes: This note is a slightly redacted copy of a conversation between two individuals that took place on August 2, 2012.
Why do you think both prosecutors refused to address breivik's defence of necessity? Surely it is their duty to do so objectively?
Why do you think?
If you watched Lippestad's closing argument, he even omitted the motion to acquit. Breivik had to interrupt him, and then he pretended he had forgotten.
Well... I got my theories.. but wanted to keep an open mind and consider other possible options. Frankly I don't think Lippestad was a good attorney... he did not really fight for breivik's defence... And no matter how guilty someone appears.. they deserve to be given the best defence....
It appears as if all of norway elite are petrified of giving breivik's argument an impartial investigation.. which indicates that they believe his argument is correct. they are paralized by political correctness!!
Did you see the complaint i filed with PFU??
PFU Press Complaint: News in English: Nina Berglund Erroneous Statement: 'Breivik Guilt Established Long Ago'
The prosecutor’s irregular decisions to ‘refuse to touch Breivik’s invocation of Necessity’ does not: (a) have the power to nullify Breivik’s invocation of necessity; (b) grant the court the authority to ‘refuse to touch Breivik’s invocation of necessity’; (c) grant the media the authority to find Mr. Breivik ‘guilty’ in a ‘trial by media ignorance of the law’.
NO v. Breivik :: Uncensored: PFU Press Complaint: News in English: Nina Berglund Erroneous Statement
I would rather think this would be grounds for requesting a retrial due to gross neglect be his counsel.
My thinking is that they all simply ignored his claim of necessity hoping that if all did the same no one would call out the bluff, the bluff being the absence of an imperative to discuss the claim of necessity. If both prosecution and defense behave as if it is simply so ridiculous that by ignoring it they "spared" Breivik of the humiliation of being confronted with how insane and ludicrous it is, then the court, the media and, more importantly, the public would by into that fraud as well.
Hmmmm most interesting.... the conspiracy of silence between defence counsel and prosecution!!Halvor Raknes
Do you think their intentions of doing so were (A) fear of being ostracized or thought that they support breivik; (b) paralyzed by political correctness; or (c) malice or support for the coverup of Arbeiderpartiet policies...
I would agree it is good grounds for a retrial.... if you can find an impartial judge in norway... might have to go to EUCHR...
Personally I'd like those Anti-Islam experts cross examined to find out what is propaganda and what is truth..... to seperate the bullshit from the facts...
If it proves breivik's argument it can be used for mitigation of sentence.... then he has done everyone a big favour.. if, however, the evidence does not measure up... then I think brievik would be man enough to admit it... and bear the consequences like a man...
But now we don't know.. cause the prosecution and defence counsel are too petrified to hold a real trial!! Ugh...
Wow Halvor!! How many Norwegians do you think share your perspective?Halvor Raknes
I don't know. I don't see many sharp-witted Norwegians around.Lara Zhivago
LOL... I don't know many norwegians, so can't say.
Proposal for an international committee for the oversight of Breivik's legal defense
There should be an international committee for the oversight of Breivik's legal defense.
Hmmm - good idea... Any further ideas on the issue? You mean an independent committee.. or clarify further?Halvor Raknes
Yes, an independent committee of concerned individuals.Lara Zhivago
I think that is a very very good idea..... how would you suggest it be organized? First relevant people need to be selected? most people don't give a fuck about whether he gets a fair trial or not!!Halvor Raknes
I'd be happy to explore this further Halvor....
I believe there are precedents for such a committee, so the first action should be to research this. And also notify Breivik since he should have the option of notifying his interlocutors of such an initiative.
Is Breivik a liar or a patsy in relation to his masonic backing?
I received a letter from breivik yesterday. I am busy responding, should take a few days. I will mention it to him and hear what his thoughts are.Halvor Raknes
So... if you got any further thoughts on the idea... share, and I shall include. Hope to have his letter finished by end of weekend. so we can chat more, as you have ideas about it, till then.
OK. Since you are in contact with him (I didn't know this and I didn't want to presume it), I do harbor principled misgivings about his alethic integrity.Lara Zhivago
My only contact to him was to write him a letter to prison, to inform him of the documentation that I had filed in his case. I was concerned his lawyers may not have informed him. So I wanted to verify he had knowledge of it. Then I received a response yesterday.Lara Zhivago
I am happy to make it public, soon as I have responded. Its mostly legal and political stuff.... he wrote about.
You do harbour misgivings about whose integrity? breivik's? or the lawyers?Halvor Raknes
Ahh yes...Halvor Raknes
I am giving him the benefit of the doubt for the moment... see where that goes... he can prove me wrong... or he can expose himself.
Yes, of course. I'm of the same disposition.Lara Zhivago
I am pondering the contingent possibility that he is an agent of sorts. Even if his narrative of a Knights Templar network being behind him is correct, that would in my opinion make him a lot more ethically compromised than if this is a mere cover story he has concocted by himself. I have some authority on judging anything related to secret societies.
Breivik is an agent??? Hmmm interesting..Halvor Raknes
I think KT is his both his cover story and his goal.. what he wishes to build, but don't think there is anyone else... but that is just my hypothesis. I am willing to change my mind.. and consider other options...
But that would erect a monumental paradox. That would be like starting a masonic lodge without any connection to other freemasons or masonic organizations. It is unthinkable. Knights Templar lodges or obediences simply must be connected to the tradition of templarism. One doesn't simply create a KT group after hacing read some books. Breivik was a mason. I cannot grasp even the possibility that he would undertake this project on his own without these structures backing him,Halvor Raknes
These are the most networked types of organizations on earth.Lara Zhivago
Really? You may be totally right...Lara Zhivago
As I said.. my opinion is simply a current working hypothesis and I suspect it is driven by own lone wolf activism experiences.
Another perspective: Doing the unthinkable gives him the semblance of a group who support him.. makes his lone wolf terrorism sound more threatening... Use the ambiguity to create doubt about whether he is a lone wolf or not...
I think he was a lone wolf and the creation of his KT group allows for templars and masons to incorporate themselves into his agenda.. whenever they decide to do so.. then they can also backdate their 'joining'... as if they were involved all along....Halvor Raknes
But Breivik being somewhat acquainted with these traditions I find it implausible in the extreme that he would fight under the banner of a movement which ostensibly disowns him and in so doing grossly dishonoring and possibly place into gross disrepute, the adherents of these traditions.These organizations are immensely powerful and with unequaled intelligence gathering capabilities. They run society behind the scenes. The notion that Breivik would unilaterally go out on a limb with a project such as this and hope the rest would come following in his footsteps later is just extremely far-fetched. These groups direct the war of civilizations between Islam and Christendom. This jigsaw puzzle has some pieces that cannot possibly fit together.Lara Zhivago
As I said.. Halvor.. you may be entirely right.Halvor Raknes
My hypothesis is based upon my personal experience... cause I was willing to go lone wolf.. I project that reality onto him...
You see.. those people are so secretive.. that if you were a lone wolf, you could use that secrecy for your own benefit. When a group is so secretive... such secrecy can be used by an unknown for his own benefit... the people don't know if he is a member or not.. cause they all lie to each other and got secret shit going on all along.
But its quite possible he was connected... however my gut says he is a lone wolf.. but i may be wrong!
Hah--- what a conundrum!Lara Zhivago
Indeed... but so the truthseeking exploration continues..Halvor Raknes
That would present a scenario where Breivik superficially participated in masonic activity, but concluded that they weren't sufficiently earnest in their cause to be considered partners in his crusadic enterprise. I haven't read his compendium, but I have seen the video, and he clearly identifies strongly with the ethos of the crusaders and the Knights Templars in defending Christendom, at least on a cultural level. It is yet another mystery to me how little the religious aspects of Christianity and a would-be relationship to God play any important role in Breivik's heart and mind.Lara Zhivago
More likely I find the scenario of him indeed being aligned with masonic Knight Templar structures, that he has been given a mission in which he knows they are not going to declare their connection to him, at least not in the present stages of the operation. If this is a fairly accurate description of the relations, then Breivik becomes MUCH less important and these machinating handlers must be held accountable and the underlying encompassing strategy must be exposed and discussed. Also in this scenario Breivik and his legal and penal environment are not adversaries at all, on the contrary it is all a show and Breivik knows he is being taken well care of.
If he is connected with some KT group.. and they are involved in his legal affairs, from a secretive distance...Halvor Raknes
then -- in my view -- it is even more important to make sure he gets a free and fair trial..
They will wish to use his lack of a fair trial for greater polarisation in their left vs right wing blame game wars...
If he gets a truly free and fair trial.. where his defence is given an impartial thorough examination.... that is damaging, to an extent, to his agenda. Breivik's agenda, was to create such an atrociious terrorist attack.. that people are emotionally brainwashed in their kneejerk response to him.. He wants them to respond to him with blind hatred.. and to avoid giving him a fair trial, cause that begets him a larger following..
This perspective should be published, don't you think?
If we do setup some impartial non-ideologically motivated group of individuals, who don't share breivik's ideology, but demand his right to a free and fair trial...
we shall piss off both the left and right wing extremists, but mostly: breiviks fanatic supporters!!
They would be pissed off, cause what they want is a civil war and greater polarisation.. and they would be exposed for not standing up on the issue of breivik's lack of a fair trial.. for their silence on the matter!!
I have to ruminate on that a little while. I have contacts with the cultural conservatives of Norway that in my view quite hypocritically do all they can to distance themselves from Breivik, even to the extent that they shun legitimate arguments because Breivik has used them. Others are pretty gung-ho and racist in a very unintelligent and tabloid manner, still publicly vehemently rejecting any support for Breivik. Breivik himself seems the most informed and rational voice in this entire mix. Hmmm... could that be his role? Exposing the real enemy and presenting the real arguments, but through his massacre making it impossible to mobilize a popular movement around these realities?Halvor Raknes
Breivik's fanatic supporters? I haven't met any of those yet...
I was thrown by your apparent rhetoric here a bit...Lara Zhivago
Sorry did not mean to 'throw' you, with rhetoric...
.... by breivik's fanatic supporters I was referring to those who want left vs. right wing polarisation. it is the source of their recruitment, both left and right. For a better example of them... see the letters he wrote to russian far right nationalists and skinheads, and their responses.
There are moderates, both on left and right, who would agree to certain concerns about various issues raised by breivik: islamicisation of europe and so on.. but frequently are only willing to express their concerns in private.
Even this guy - Angus - who runs this blog... wants greater polarisation!!!
While I agree with him on certain issues.. in my experience polarisation does not solve problems. It is a tactic used by left and right wing to garner themselves a following from which they sustain themselves socially or politically as parasites; and which they then work to perpetuate this polarisation...
The Commander Anders Breivik Report: http://breivikreport.blogspot.com/:
A blog dedicated to Commander Anders Behring Breivik of the Knights Templar European Resistance Movement.
Actually, the strategy of polarisation or crisis maximization (a common term in Norwegian discourse) is both flawed and valid, depending on how and why it is being applied. Some conflicts need to mature, by increasing the heat or conflict level, before the real differences are uncovered. Above the core conflict are numerous layers of proxy grievances that are in place so that various groups can manipulate the masses for their own agendas.
It's a pivotal tenet of alchemy that heat must sometimes be applied to a solid (entrenched conflict) for it to dissolve. In its extension comes the dictum 'solve et coagula'.
In radical honesty.. the heat is applied ..or conflict does increase, but it is honourable conflict (but the heat is applied with a focus of problem solving)...
In most other cultures polarisation is to enlarge the host following, for the benefit of the elite parasites... or the wanna-be elite parasites on their way up the parasite totem pole...
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