2012-05-31 PM (VG): Breivik Trial: Day 28: Expert Witnesses: Terje Emberland | Tore Bjørgo | Øyvind Stromme

2012-05-31 PM (VG): Breivik Trial: Day 28: Expert Witnesses:

Holocaust Center Historian: Terje Emberland | Professor Tore Bjørgo (Right wing violence ideologies and terrorist rationality) | Eurofascist Author & Researcher on Right Wing Extremism: Øyvind Stromme

Andrea Muhrrteyn | 31 May 2012 | VG.NO (Google Translate)

Behring Anders Breivik:
- Well first of all, when it comes to fascism, there is a broad term, and as I described it, there is support for the one-party system and therefore there is left - and right fascists. I do not support one-party system, but need a transitional period of twenty years to introduce the concept of democracy. When it comes to what you mentioned that I had said the Nordic race, I have not used the word race, nor in the compendium. And I have also booked me on the use of the word, I have used the ethnic group and not the word race. I have not used the word Germanic - I've used the word Nordic. I also have reservations about using the word Germanic because it has relevance to another ideology that I do not support. I have not argued for Norwegian superiority, but survival will be the consequence. - For if nothing is done, the Norwegian ethnic group will be deconstructed within 150 years. And after 200 years there will be individuals with blue eyes. When we talk about survival and supremacy. So konspriasjonsteorier: The so-called Arabian theory is a theory, for it has been documented, including in my compendium. As far as I know, has not Emberland managed to refute the documentary evidence. - And, well ... The essence is that the Norwegian people have never been asked if they allow the country transformed into a multikutlturelt society. The nationalists have been under pressure after the Second World War is not something I claim, it is a fact I have absolutely no national socialist. I support Israel's struggle against jihadism. I think everyone, regardless of ethnic background, are brothers, so long as they assimilierer, and as long as they fight the same. The very contrary to what was said then. Thank you.

12:40


Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
The actors and the audience is on its way into the hall 250 The experts are always early, and prosecutors are also in place. There are many photographers in the audience, and several TV stations are still live. court is still not set, the judges are outside the hall. Breivik are not led into the hall yet, and the judges will not consider until all is in place.

12:42


Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen:
- As negotiations continue. And we have now arrived at a privately hired expert witness. [Witness's name is Terje Emberland and he sits ed]

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
The first witness after the break is in place in the witness box. This is a senior researcher at the Holocaust Center, Terje Emberland, which is among the prosecution witnesses on the recommendation of the coordinating aid lawyers. You can follow his explanation for VGTV. Emberland says that after 22 July was uncertainty about what kind of ideology Breivik stood for, but said after he heard Breivik's explanation and read the compendium, he concludes that Breivik's ideology is fascist.

12:47

Witness Terje Emberland, historian:
- [prosecutor Holden: - Emberland I want you to tell us about your professional background and your current position] I am a senior scientist at the Holocaust Center. I have written numerous books and professional articles. [Emberland list what these are and also talks about the commitment he has had in the past and now in addition to his job] I have also commented on right-wing ideology in relation to terrorist attacks and Breivik compendium of press, Norwegian and international. I also got early access to the rettspyskiatriske evaluations and have commented on it too. [The prosecutor Holden: - Does that mean that you have read the compendium of Breivik?] I have read carefully the ideological aspects of Breivik's compendium.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Senior researcher perceives ideology of Breivik as an ideological hybrid, where he has cut and pasted a lot together, in that he draws elements from many different directions. - It is not uncommon among today's fascists. Many of them are often not as concerned with political theory, but pour rvoldsbruk and powerful symbols. Often they will have trouble explaining what they stand for, says Emberland.

12:49


Witness historian Terje Emberland:
- [prosecutor Holden: - I wish that you first tell us how you look at Breivik's ideology.] I thought at first only to discuss how to place this world picture as it appears in the compendium and the court, and then look at the historical parallels to his basic thinking, and view the policies that have caused. Things that at first glance may seem very bizarre and deviant has Examples are given that have historical precedent. After 22 July was much uncertainty how the characterization of Breivik's ideology. Was he antijihadistisk, an extreme Christian or a militant conservative nationalist? And after hearing particularly Breivik's testimony in court and his world view in a concentrated form, I think things are clearer. I think it can be characterized as fascist. He believes that Europe is managed systematically and secretly by a conspiracy of kulturmarxister and Muslims. We are in a apokalyptisik time. - This he thinks will lead to a national awakening, led by an elite of "perfect knight" as he describes. This maturity and conspiracy idea and the dream of a cleansing war and new world order, is what most scientists now agree that is fascist. But then there are elements of Nordic research raged, kontrajihadisme and American ultra-conservatism. Much of the network and sometimes questionable sources. It's a mutation. He retrieves items from a variety of places and have selectively chosen sources. It is not uncommon among today's fascists. They are more concerned with strong symbols and violence, than by ideology and thinking itself.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
There has been a significantly lighter atmosphere in the room 250 in the day and the last few days, now that the heavy weeks of testimony from Utøya is over. It is often short laughter in the audience, and people seem calmer and more relaxed. It is probably that there is now a large majority of journalists among us in the room, which also is under half full.

12:53


Witness Terje Emberland, historian:
- If they are confronted with to explain what they stand for, they will have great difficulty to explain this world view. These symbols such as these today surrounds himself with the fascists, Breivik has collected from various sources also conflicting national romantic ideas. It may be "skinheads" and the American national romantic thinking. So the articulate level, it is difficult to determine if they have a coherent ideology. They form together a "pool" of shared components that are fascist. Some commentators have written in this case that it comes with Breivik has no reflecting ideology. In my study of SS ideology and strongly differing worldview of religious movements, it is too narrow a view of the reality of an ideology.

12:55


Witness historian Terje Emberland:
- If you use the what you call an aristocratic definition of such a reality is to be understood as a logical coherent and thorough view on life. Few of us have anything like that. A world view is more a relationship of symbols, myths, etc. that we use to give life meaning. In that sense, all this reality. So no matter how bizarre his true picture may be, he has expressed a reasonably coherent worldview. It can be placed at a fascist tradition. [The prosecutor Holden: - Can you repeat some of these individual elements?]

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Emberland explains that in the research agree that the two elements essentially constitute a fascist ideology: one is a show about a conspiracy, that we are facing the cliff and that this is a deliberate action among the who has power. Breivik Arbeiderpatriet believes has betrayed Norway and signed a pact to let the Muslims take over the country and Europe. The second notion is the idea of an apocalyptic civil war that will open the way for a new social order of national rebirth. Breivik believe this will happen in 2083, and the Knights Templar to assume leadership positions in a totalitarian society where citizens are sorted and the Norwegian Indigenous grows up. Breivik take notes while Emberland explanatory. He has a serious facial expression, and showed no obvious reaction to Emberland explanation that in many ways strips Breivik's ideological conviction that a conglomeration of other ideologies, without any independent value.

13:00


Witness historian Terje Emberland:
- I am sure others will emphasize this in court. It is with belief in the conspiracy. A secret, systematically driven conspiracy to destroy the entire culture, and that we stand on the edge of the cliff now. The second is this apocalyptic civil war will result, which should pave the way for a new social order. Then there are elements that appear to be more bizarre. In court, he has motivated his terror attacks with the desire to rescue the Norwegian indigenous peoples from extinction. In the compendium, this is elaborated in several places where he speaks of a "catastrophic bastardiseringsprosess." There are elements of pure bred king, of an indigenous people with 12.0000 years of unbroken succession. He says that within three to four generations, the pure breed in most countries in Europe will be destroyed. This notion takes him from the net, but also from breed books. Where it is claimed that racial mixture is ødelggende, and that the Nordic race is superior in every way. This ends Breivik to, but he believed instead to emphasize the benefits you have to talk about the claim and the rights urb

Witness Terje Emberland, historian:
- As Breivik discuss possible ways to achieve this, that the rescue operation for the Nordic race. He proposed a pan-Nordic motion and it was actually started by a German man who wanted it. And this movement's main points was the belief in a pure Nordic urrase. It included the belief that cultural creative power was threatened with extinction and destruction of civilization. This movement gained by Gunther and Hitler's former agriculture minister and formed the basic outline of the SS 'ideology. The Nordic race thinking was the foundation of the SS racial ideology. So Breivik discuss whether race should have reserves and there is not a unique show. This movement of race romantic character we then discussed the possibility to save this breed. Himmler himself belonged to such a motion.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Emberland has previously expressed criticism of the first expert rap roots because he believes Synne Sørheim and Torgeir Husby should have taken an ideological framework in mind when they considered him. - These are far more normal in that context, and not necessarily a sign of clinical or psychological deviations, saying to him. Sørheim and Husby argues in his declaration that political ideology is outside their mandate.

13:04


Witness historian Terje Emberland:
- Breivik also think you have to try to ensure the Nordic race genetic material through controlled measures, such as the use of surrugatmødre. Also for the SS received the Nordic racial ideology that it had endangered the consequence that they developed a Institution whose purpose was to ensure a child's wealth of Nordic blood. Mon the foundation of the Nordic kivinner (...). Mon secured the offspring of SS members of these women. In Norway, a purely SS project more precisely Institution of racial reasons, because they believed that Norway and Sweden were the purest populations of pure Scandinavian race. In summary. Some of the things that stands out in Breivik's thinking is in many ways which we recognize from history, and there are consequences of the basic elements of his tenkining. [The prosecutor Holden: - Is that mean that you think the declaration to Huseby and Sørheim lacked ideological perspectives.] It appeared extremely strange if you know the world picture as it fascisistiske has represented throughout history, it appeared much more normal in the context and not necessarily as a result of clinical error. I miss the possibility that these have been interpreted and put into a larger assessment. Among other things, this messianic interpretation of a knight's ideal, one that will save Europe OCV. - [prosecutor Svein Holden: Oddly enough grip you now hold in my last two questions. That the messianic vocation and knighted. Yes, well ... The expectation that you have a mission destined to save the world related to conspiracy thinking. When Breivik and his like-minded users think they have truth on their side and they do not win your way with this view, they must find an explanation - which then is that there are evil forces opposing. It gives a sense of being called and chosen. One has seen the great truth, and must fight against the evil forces. It includes the government, the cultural elite and the press. In neo-Nazism they think that all this in secret is controlled by Jews.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Emberland addresses many of the performances in Breivik's manifesto and explanations of Sørheim and Husby is seen as grandiose delusions. He believes that both thoughts avlsfarmer for a separate indigenous people, the idea that one is chosen to save Europe and the idea that one is part of a mostandskamp stretching back to the war is not specific to Breivik, on the contrary. - There are many who believe this, and it will be difficult to do all morbid, says Emberland.

13:07


Witness Terje Emberland, historian:
- And Breivik's fantasies of Labor and kulturmarxisme, the community, according to him was occupied by an illegitimate regime which, together with the Muslims strive to deprive our society. In this warped perception of reality makes it easy for him to consider it legitimate to use terrorism as legitimate resistance. He and his fellow draws parallels with the resistance during the war. Otherwise, this is not to follow that one should save Europe anything special either. We know of several stories about the revival preachers who must save the world from doom. There are many who have such grandiose ideas about his own role, and it becomes difficult to make these morbidly. We have people with very specific ideas with us and we are more likely to accept this if they are religious and if they are political.

13:08


Witness historian Terje Emberland:
- [prosecutor Holden: - In continuation of this, I have a small question: You had mentioned that there are many who find themselves in a sort of call-related situation. What thoughts do you means Breivik adopt?] We have examples in the last ten years on cults who commit mass murder in God's command. When it comes Breivik mechanisms: one thing to argue that it is legitimate to engage in violent military resistance to this. But here we are the limits of what I, as historian of religion can comment on. It plays into the psychological elements. One thing is to share the perception, something else is going to act. [The prosecutor Holden: - Then we can move on to my final point, this with knighthood.] I have already pointed out similarities between the SS-thinking and Breivik's ideas as presented in the compendium and the right. - An example of this is that Breivik legitimize his imaginary Crusader-order with the same funds that Himmler and the SS did. Himmler used the Teutonic crusaders who fought against the tribes in the east, and they were highlighted as role models and heroes for all the pure SS-men. The war against what they believed was Jewish Bolsheviks in the Soviet Union was seen as a continuation of the Crusades. In the Civil War Breivik waiting and hoping the focus is directed against Islam, so he targets the Knights Templar who fought against the Muslims. He thinks they should take power in the West and impose a conservative cultural agenda. It is with both a mind to continue the Crusades, and be the backbone of Europe.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Holden asks Emberland if he can say anything about Breivik explanations and ideas about a knight order. According to the historian there are many features in common with Nazism, which also inspired by knightly orders. - Heavens inspired by the tautoniske Knights when he created the SS, he explains. There are also similarities between the ethos of the words - both to give his life for the cause, and put all their motivation and willingness to fight. Emberland believe the greatest similarity lies in the way the Nazis and Breivik is at war as an instrument, and the willingness to put aside all morality. Breivik himself has denied that he has any sympathy or agreement with Nazism.

13:13


Witness Terje Emberland, historian:
- There are several parallels to the epic that characterized the SS and Himmler's organization and Breivik think about the Knights Templar. They are totally dedicated to the case and they perceive themselves as crusaders. It's like the SS told members that they should our God believers. The most important and striking similarity is the attitude towards the war's character and role. It is courage and martyrdom. It's like SS and Himmler maintained. [The prosecutor Holden: - Now I'm a little unsure about Breivik even agree that the link to SS. Could there be other options?] My main point is the same as the SS with the Jews as Breivik with the Muslims. It has the same consequences and the same type of ideals set aside a page for every moral of this final battle. Himmler's moral is that you can kill civilians, it is reminiscent of Breivik's statement that it is about existence and non-existence and that the knight should sacrifice himself.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Holden points out that Breivik hardly agree with Emberland in the assessment of the inspiration of Nazism, as Breivik even claim that he is opposed to Nazism. - It's really irrelevant to the case what Breivik believes and where he has drawn inspiration from, says the historian. For him, the point is that Breivik and Nazism actually share ideas, not what Breivik think.

13:16


Witness historian Terje Emberland:
- It is the same type of structure and thinking that the SS had. [The prosecutor Holden: - Now, I shot as usual into a few more questions than I notified, but thanks. Colleague Engh has a question.] [The prosecutor Engh: - parallel to the SS, if we compare with the sects who commit mass murder. It is assumed by Breivik alone. How does this relate to the situation of Breivik. Group dynamics.] SS 'atrocities and mass murder was the result of the order of identity and peer pressure. Breivik had a sense of belonging to a group through the Internet. It is more important to gain by cutting from other types of objections. The question of lederløs resistance, which is the strategy that was developed by Nazi groups from the 80's by, was a strategy change, a move away from hierarchical organized groups to avoid being traced.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh takes up the question of sanity. Emberland say it is difficult to answer, but points out that the thousands of soldiers who killed for Hitler probably was clinically ill. - But if it is so difficult to consider this, who should seek advice from? Ask Engh. - Certainly not a historian, answers Emberland, to laughter from the audience.

13:18


Witness historian Terje Emberland:
- [prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: But do you think one-man cells that grow out of itself, or that it agreed?] No, they often have the same strategy and goals - but working independently of each other . [The prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: Do you think groups that plan it that way, or pure individuals? As far as I know this is people who have already ideology. [The prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: we would find out about Breivik has real flaws to a degree where he is irresponsible. It must be considered from people who feel the same. Is there anything from the story that shows how the limit for when those who think this is wrong within the group? It is a terribly complex question. [The prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: Yes, that's what we're working with ... It was studied a police division of the SS that made ​​mass murder on the Eastern Front. All were normal men without major deviations. I find it hard to believe that an organization that counts millions and go out and compete to rise through the ranks of the SS ... That these would all be mentally ill in the clinical sense, I think that's hard to believe. But it is clear that there are overlapping. Breivik has a larger agenda than what I perceive as delusions.

Witness Terje Emberland, historian:
- [prosecutor Bejer Engh: - But in such a difficult assessment that we should do now, who should then seek advice from to find out if he is real questionable in this group again?] It is not a historian. We know the ideas from before and they have the same consequences and have other relationships whether it be religious or political. It is intercepts and the outer limits of my competence. It is clear that I said that to live in this universe and feel entitled to extreme violence are the factors from this point and realize that. Although the tools are familiar.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Lippestad says Breivik would like to comment Emberland explanation Emberland while still in the witness box. Lawyer Frode Elgesem To learn more about the notion of chivalry and how it was perceived among the Nazis. Emberland explains that it is a sacrifice in the perception not only of themselves for the cause, but also a sacrifice of all morality in favor of the story. This is consistent with Breivik's description of himself as a knight in the manifest.

13:23


Witness historian Terje Emberland:
- [Bistandsadvokar Elgesem: - I will go back to your definition of fascism, the last link I perceived that the apocalyptic war will lead to an awakening and a new social elite led by Breivik universe or a perfect SS-man. On bakgurnn of your research, can you tell us more about the requirements of SS-man, can you tell us about his responsibilities and role in the Hitler project?] Willingness to do barbaric, but necessary actions, such Breivik also calls it, is a example of what constitutes an SS man. Breivik he says is based on love for the Norwegian people. There is a parallel that acts on behalf of the breed and the future and history. An SS man to be a perfect and selvoppoffrende knight. A realization of the vision that the SS were set to achieve. Thus he is relieved of responsibility as individuals. This ensures SS 'emergency action, even when the actions normally would have gone against the individual's morality. Mass killing of Jews was necessary to realize the national socialist utopia. Sacrifice of self and morality, as a small cog in a large system.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Emberland request to comment on the term "kulturmarxisme" as well use Breivik rooms Labor and AUF. He points out that the term "kulturbolsjevik" was a common abuse of the Nazis to denigrate the left side. The word comes from Bolshevik Russia and means majority. It was used on the majority of Lenin's Communist Party, which was a separate area within communism.

13:26


Witness historian Terje Emberland:
- So this is the martyr idea central to National Socialist ideology. It has blood tab and the cult of those who sacrifice themselves. [Coordinating counsel Frode Elgsem: Who gives SS mannnen the role?] He defends race against alien races and maturity. [Coordinating counsel Frode Elgsem: We are now talking far into the SS story. Thinking about this idea as being unique for Breivik in recent history?] When it comes to today's fascists, so other people can give a better introduction. But SS is inspiring for those, even today. I have a comment about kulturmarxisme, too. Kulurbolsjevisme was used by the Nazis about everything they said broke into the culture. Quisling was extremely conspiratorial about the Labour Party, for example. [Coordinating counsel Frode Elgsem: Breivik think of an outer and inner enemy. A war on two fronts. Can you utdtype historically?] It is central to the SS his thoughts on the state protection. Waffen SS were fighting at the front and the outer enemy, and Jews were also external enemy there. But then there were traitors, Jews and Freemasons as the inner enemy. Conspiracy is central.

13:30


Witness Terje Emberland, historian:
- [Lawyer Elgesem: - You talked a bit about common men's ability to do acts for political purposes, can you elaborate on the details surrounding your research on the SS-man's task and mission, that you are exempt responsibility] ideology Promotes this, that one can henskrive its responsibility to the story that makes sense to set aside moral considerations. Then there is a indoktrineringsprosess, peer pressure and propaganda. It Promotes required to participate. It is a complex relationship between ideological motivation and massacres when it comes to Norwegian cohorts. It's about the personality characteristics, propaganda and peer pressure. [Lawyer Elgesem: - Propaganda as you mentioned earlier and that the ideology should consist of myths and symbols. Forging History, it will be unique?] No, of course not. Nazi propaganda is full of distortions of history. Among other things, forgeries to document Jewish verdenssammensvergelse.

Witness historian Terje Emberland:
- [Elgesem: - As regards the latter issue. We were in that Breiviik operated on their own, as a one-man terrorist cell. Are there historical parallels to the kind of thinking?] Not in the near past. It has developments as "leaderless resistance" as it is given an expression of the book "The Hunter". He had written another book that was a recipe for bombers, including in Oklahoma. "The Hunter" goes on to a lone wolf strategy. This is a strategy we know from the neo-Nazi terror as I'm sure Tore Bjørgo and others can say more about. [Elgesem: - Thank you. Do you have any more to add?] No.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Psychiatrist Torgeir Husby ask Emberland know some historical analogies to the breivik have done, where an individual has followed an ideological conviction outside a larger context, without a sense of belonging. - The only thing I'm getting at is Timothy McVeigh, said Emberland. McVeigh, or the Oklahoma bomber, was sentenced to death for blowing up a federal office building in Oklahoma in the U.S. in 1995. 168 people were killed. McVeigh was executed in 2001.

13:33


Witness historian Terje Emberland:
- [Cute lawsuit Torgeir Husby: I have two questions. Is there some historical analogies to our situation, where individuals without affiliation to a group commit such acts? Mass murder out of context, that is.] The closest I come is Timothy McVeigh (who was behind the bombing in Oklahoma forecast in the USA). He is an example of this. Also, we have also, for example Laser Man. [Cute lawsuit Torgeir Husby: Have you any knowledge of the factors that bring people to think and mean to do such things? War's such a factor, but is something more in our context?] The most immediate is the result of all possible communities that suddenly explodes and, for example, massacring Jews. Where conspiracy theories are spreading a deadly way, even if communities are stable before that.

13:38


Witness Terje Emberland, historian:
- [Aspaas: - You have proven historical parallels to Breivik's thinking. If you find something that does not have parallels that are unique?] No, I would rather say it like that, excuse the expression, a process of cut and paste method creates a new fusion and it is clear that his Templar-mythology is in many ways which he has developed a large extent. It's a way to legitimize bringing together Christian and national conservative. There is an element of innovation in it, even if it is fused process of many elements. [Aspaas: - This uniforms and theatrical about it?] There is no known from the extreme right and fascist movements. There are symbols, parades, uniforms and rank schemes. SS was full of this. There were awards and how to work up the structures. There were strict hierarchical and pompous forms. Studdert were many things that helped to create a stylish setting for the order of the identity.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Lay judge Ernst Henning Eielsen Emberland ask about his definsjon of fascism and whether he expects Breivik's ideology as part of the Italian fascism. Emberland answered that he uses the concept of generic fascism and that he refers to both the Italian and other forms of fascism. Eielsen is even a political scientist, and the two go into a rather academic discussion.

13:40


Witness historian Terje Emberland:
- [Straight Sørheim Psychiatrist: It was in the wake of my colleague's question, do you know what has brought some ...? I do not know it. Then we are on the borderline of what I as an historian can say. But the psychological limit of a single individual, then we are into a different field. [Lay judge Ernst Henning Eielsen: - Fascism know you often from Italy in the interwar period. Is there the political landscape to place Breivik's ideology?] No, I use the term as a generic term. There is no doubt that Breivik's ideology can not be fit into neither Mussolini fascism in the 1920s, or Hitler's Nazi government. I use the term as a generic term. [Lay judge Ernst Henning Eielsen: - Breivik has even categorized as a "militant nationalist." Do you see any connection there?] It does not. But he wants to call himself that, is something he does to distance themselves from Nazism. The fact that National Socialism is not a term you can use today, is a pragmatic reasons, not ideological. He will be collecting nationalists. National Socialists are discredited by Hitler's Nazi politics. - [Lay judge Ernst Henning Eielsen: So it's a sort of upgraded version, this?] Yes, and a new version too. [Judge Arne Lyng, I have a couple questions. This with the SS, uniforms and so on. Can you say something about the degree system in which] they had their own system. It corresponded in part to the system in the army, but with different names. So they also had a separate branch of the order with its own degrees and uniforms. [Heather: Did they do it from another organization?] It was widely from norse ideology and racist movements. They picked this symbolism and had his very own rank-order. [Heather: Also, we have seen here a special greeting from Breivik here in the audience (the fist). Reminds you of someone else?] It reminds very much of fascist greetings. It also provides a sense of Roman greetings. These are consistently among the fascists, but Breivik's greeting is no blueprint of something I've seen before.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Breivik will comment Emberland diplomas, and Judge Wenche Arntzen points out that the two are not allowed to start a debate. Breivik argues against the history of the researcher's definition of fascism and still refuse to be part of this direction. Breivik seems irritated, and no longer the friendly voice he had when he commented interrogate Løken's testimony before the break. It is now time to break 14.05. After the break to Professor Tore Bjørgo and journalist Øyvind current witness.

13:44


Behring Anders Breivik:
- Well first of all, when it comes to fascism, there is a broad term, and as I described it, there is support for the one-party system and therefore there is left - and right fascists. I do not support one-party system, but need a transitional period of twenty years to introduce the concept of democracy. When it comes to what you mentioned that I had said the Nordic race, I have not used the word race, nor in the compendium. And I have also booked me on the use of the word, I have used the ethnic group and not the word race. I have not used the word Germanic - I've used the word Nordic. I also have reservations about using the word Germanic because it has relevance to another ideology that I do not support. I have not argued for Norwegian superiority, but survival will be the consequence. - For if nothing is done, the Norwegian ethnic group will be deconstructed within 150 years. And after 200 years there will be individuals with blue eyes. When we talk about survival and supremacy. So konspriasjonsteorier: The so-called Arabian theory is a theory, for it has been documented, including in my compendium. As far as I know, has not Emberland managed to refute the documentary evidence. - And, well ... The essence is that the Norwegian people have never been asked if they allow the country transformed into a multikutlturelt society. The nationalists have been under pressure after the Second World War is not something I claim, it is a fact I have absolutely no national socialist. I support Israel's struggle against jihadism. I think everyone, regardless of ethnic background, are brothers, so long as they assimilierer, and as long as they fight the same. The very contrary to what was said then. Thank you. [Judge Wenche Arntzen: Want to say something, Emberland] [Historian Terje Emberland: Is it necessary that I say something?] [Arntzen: Yes.]

13:45


VG:
- The Court has taken a break at 14:05.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Professor of Political Science Tore Bjørgo is already in place in the witness box and check that the technical equipment is in order. He has with him a power point presentation called right-wing violence ideologies and terrorist rationality. Breivik introduced into their arrestforvarere, and exchanges a few words with defender Vibeke Hein berries. He is still wearing handcuffs.

14:06


Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen:
- As negotiations continue and we have a new expert witness in the witness box. [The witness is Tore Bjørgo and oath]

14:12


Witness Tore Bjørgo, Professor:
- [prosecutor Bejer Engh: - You have made ​​a presentation. Before you can say what kind of knowledge you have about this matter?] I am a social anthropologist and a doctorate for a thesis on racial and høyreekstem violence in Scandinavia that is perfect for this. I have done research on terrorism from 1988 to 2001. [He says that the last ten years, he has not collected as much data] I have researched a lot on terrorist theories and strategies. Why some are violent actors and why they eventually ends: radicalization - and deradikaliseringsprosesser. I have written books on the right-wing ideology and culture. [The prosecutor Bejer Engh: - What about Breivik and knowledge of him?] I was in the media a few hours after 22 July and it was those first few days. I have followed the recent debate on 22 July attacks closely, and read the compendium on the evening of 23 July, and set at night and read. I have also participated in the debate around the first psychiatric statement and assume that's why I'm here. I have read the compendium and most of the Breivik have written yourself. I have also read the first part of the second psychiatric report.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Bjørgo says that he read Breivik already manifest on the night of 24 July. Although it was horrible content, there was also a familiar landscape for him, he says.

14:14


Witness Professor Tore Bjørgo:
- What I thought to do was to question the extent to which the defendant's statements and actions consistent with (...) what we know about terrorist strategies and målutvelgelse. There is some overlap with the Emberland said. When I read this compendium of the night 23 July was a terrible document and I realized that this would fremtå very strange to most people. But for me, who has been doing this for 15 years, this was a very familiar landscape. It was my first impression. But to specify my theme, it can be reformulated into a hypothesis: The defendant's statements are consistent development and can be understood based on what we know of terrorist strategies and målutvelgelse. - We also have an alternative hypothesis on psychiatry. It is a key issue here is whether the actions can be understood from the psychiatric explanations. The court has to adhere to the hypothesis they think has the best explanatory power. My expertise is in psychiatry, but I will highlight the first hypothesis. My criticism of the first psychiatric report is all the more that they do not look at other explanations than mental incapacity. It may seem like they just looking for confirmation on it, then g can be done justice errors.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Bjørgo shows that Emberland talked Breivik as fascist, but he will mention Breivik's ideology as right extremism. The ideologies are partly overlapping, and Emberland comes Bjørgo into conspiracy thinking and the idea of an apocalyptic showdown with the existing world order. Bjørgo have an example of rhetoric from the neo-Nazi groups from the early 90th century is very similar to the Breivik uses in its manifesto . Like the neo-Nazis, he argues to save his people from extinction.

14:21


Witness Tore Bjørgo, Professor:
- Now that we've talked about Breivik ideology fascicsme should I use the right extremism. There are other varieties of right extremism. It covers a wide range and has some common features. Who is the enemy? There may be Jews, Muslims, Communists. It varies in different varieties. But it can be secular or religious. The first common feature is that you look at people who are fundamentally different. Some say these groups are of the same value but different. The second element that also Emberland are visiting, the konspirative world that is malicious plans and conspired with internal and external enemy. It can vary greatly who is the interior. The third element is the basic understanding that "our people are threatened by the catastrophic destruction." That we face a major "disaster and elimination." The external threat is existential. "It is necessary to intervene to prevent disaster." It is also the notion of civil war, which is a key recurring theme in most cases of right extremism. There will be an "Armageddon" of a bloody settlement. Some believe it is "our job to put this in time" some people think it's farther ahead.

14:21


Witness Professor Tore Bjørgo:
- Jumps back a little to the first item: If you look at people who are fundamentally different. Human characteristics are understood based on the category they belong to. If one Jew, one is first and foremost a Jew. If one Muslim, one is, according to Breivik, really jihadist and even those who appear to be moderate are actually jihadists in sheep's clothing. This understanding disaster exists in various forms. [Shows a slide with two images]. The only way to do it is through struggle. hHis not want everything beautiful we love be destroyed. [Reading from the manifesto to Breivik] A side note: I use that page section that was in the original document, not the police's version. I have three varieties of right-wing discourses or narratives, which exemplify different ideologies.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Breivik follows closely the text of Bjørgo show, where the professor is now putting forward the similarity between voldsdiskursene to Breivik and other islamfientlige groups. Sometimes he takes notes.

14:23


Witness Professor Tore Bjørgo:
- The first is the neo-Nazi white-power movement, where there is understanding that you are a white resistance movement against the Jews. It basically lost power after World War II. But the U.S. was thinking, where they thought that now, Jews have taken over power - it is not talking about just a threat anymore. This was popular in Europe and Sweden in particular the 80 - and 90-century. The second one against immigration. There are a few different movements there. They are more concerned with culture and nation than by race. Several of the key in the movements I looked at had participated in the resistance during World War II. The third is yes Breivik's presentation. The new defenders fighting against the third Islamic occupation. These three are quite identical in their structure and history, even if the content is different.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Bjørgo presents examples of two novels by William Pierce, "Hunter" and "The Turner Diaries," which has been used by several solo terrorists as inspiration and virtually recipe for terror. Among them are Timothy McVeigh who was also mentioned by Emberland earlier today. Bjørgo Arne Myrdal also mentions as an example of a militant opponent of immigration, which has advocated violent methods to fight innvadring. Myrdal argued that Muslims came to Norway to take over our country, and that we are on the brink of civil war. Myrdal also spoke different degrees of traitors, such as Breivik does in its manifesto.

14:30


Witness Tore Bjørgo, Professor:
- Which is very important in these subcultures that are written by Andrew McDonald. He is a famous American neo-Nazi. They mark a change in understanding and terrorist doctrine. These two books are ideological books. They are much more Benn read "Mein Kampf". They have inspired more terrorists. Only years after this book came out it was an organization formed "The silent brotherhood." It also formed the recipe for the Oklahoma City bomber who used a sequence in the book that recipe. What happened to those who formed the terrorist organizations were quickly infiltrated and rolled up, and to cooperate with organizations was seen as a failure. "The lone wolf" was the effective way to operate. 'Laser Man' in Sweden in the 90s and now "gun man" Malmo recently and although I do not know about Breivik know the book, it's the same operation pattern that he uses. A little more about the "Turner Diaries" [which is novel as it is referred to]. This is about "Armageddon" to do a coup and one day they make a massacre. 60,000 raseforrædere is hanged. They will get hold of nuclear missiles and send them to the Jewish metropolis of New York, Washington and Tel Aviv. It shows the purity fry no one to commit massacres to achieve this.

Witness Professor Tore Bjørgo:
- We have many examples of how this has turned into. The journal Storm was very popular in the 1990s among Swedish Nazis. [Viewing images of this with anti-Semitic motives.] Other types of right-wing extremists, the leading ideologue of Norway, Arne Myrdahl, which operated from about 1988 to 1994. He published a book "The truth will out." He was sentenced to one year in prison for illegal explosives in connection with the fact that he was going to blow up a reception center. He was a miltant immigration opponent who advocated violent resistance. In his book he wrote [quote from the book a Muslim pionerhær to take over Norway]. I interviewed Myrdal in 1989 [quotes from the interview of a coming civil war with Muslims] Again comes the concept of civil war up and a conspiracy between enemies who would destroy us, to take world domination, and our country and people should be destroyed.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Myrdal attempted to start a collection of personal information on traitors in terms of a new traitor settlement. On the form, there were three categories with traitors, all of which are "helpers" to a Muslim takeover of Norway. Several in the audience laughs at the section that will be presented to the court. Bjørgo stresses that this is dangerous violent rhetoric, pointing out that Breivik used the same classification.

14:34


Witness Professor Tore Bjørgo:
- He said in the interview that the population would not accept it. When politicians are wondering young people would eventually resort to violence. People would rise up with violence when the politicians were out of step with the people. He also had some big ideas about himself. He also had this idea of traitors and betrayers. He formed the "Norway against immigration," and started a project called "traitor register." They searched the Data Protection Act and sent to the registration number of "traitors". I was among those who received the form from them. All lint is not as good as me. It was quite threatening. He had three kategorierer. Dignitaries who assisted the foreigners, that ministers and public servants, the other was the political traitors, as anti-rasisiter and Blitzere. The third were other traitors, as journalists and people who wrote letters to foreigners. He said information would be helpful when it came to battle. They had to be prepared. This spoke of civil war going again. This is rhetoric that kills. The third is thus Breivik compendium and mindset.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Like Emberland Bjørgo points out that there are a lot of symbolism and the knight Breivik describes as "pompous fremstllingsmåter" in the Nazi and neo-Nazi groups.

14:40


Witness Tore Bjørgo, Professor:
- Here again, we find much the same. I find striking parallelism to this. He talks about the classification system of the traitors. Which is A - and B-traitors. There are political leaders who should have the death penalty and the expropriation of property. This will be a few people. Category B who are teachers, journalists, members of boards and authors in which the penalty is death and the expropriation of property. The category C is less influential. It is however worth noting that the same mindset, and noting that really was Utøya victims in category C, but states that they are category-B anyway. This is characterized by the rationalization. He describes the civil war in three phases which he describes in the compendium that we are in phase one of "shock military attacks" of the secret cells. Then comes a more conventional civil war in which one takes power in the final and third phase. He also talks about three-jihad campaigns to conquer Islam. [Mentions it from the Spanish and Ottoman war from the compendium. The third is that which takes place now, which is the mass invasion of Muslims in Europe. A demographic invasion] So he talks about the temple knight and the civil war and discusses this in detail. He justifies mass killing at least 200,000 Christian Europeans. He argues that it is correct, because there are traitors.

14:41


Witness Professor Tore Bjørgo:
- This legitimization of mass murder, I have not found similar examples of the general literature of the counter-jihadists. But it's not hard to find among neo-Nazis and old Nazis. There are not many years since we see something of the same unfolding in the former Yugoslavia, performed by some of Breivik's heroes. We are not accustomed to think of mass murder in our time and culture. Traditional symbols are dynktet in blood, and is now useless. The knight and crusader symbols are common among right-wing extremists in England and France than in Norway if we had no nobility who could handle this. Breivik says that the purpose was to unite nationalists in Europe. - When he realized that mentioned that the National Socialist symbols were unusable because of all that hung by, and would introduce an alternative knight symbolism. But it is doubtful whether it was successful. Embla was also at this brand and martyr cult. The novel "The Turner Diaries" ends with a suicide action. This was written in 1978, not 2001. So little in the end about the characteristics of terrorism. It's planning acts of violence to create fear or threaten to create fear. There is agreement on the core, but pretty much disagreement about the demarcation of what constitutes terrorism. We are talking about using violence to achieve a goal. The more spectacular violence and the worse it, the better for many. Al Qaeda has the cultivated this. But it varies. For example, ventrevridde terrorists had more specific goals, traditionally. There will be violence that does more harm than the act itself. Therefore it is important after seeing what the terrorists want, and not do what they want. Thus, succeeded to the Norwegian people well after 22 July, that he achieved what he wanted.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Bjørgo Breivik notes that have been successful in its strategy to gain more awareness of the compendium, and that this is the easiest strategy for a terrorist act. He thinks that Breivik's dream of creating a revolution through the witch hunt in the cultural conservatives who thus will take to arms, is a recipe for failure. There are no historical examples of terrorist organizations that have succeeded with this strategy, he said.

14:48


Witness Tore Bjørgo, Professor:
- Then there are a number of strategies that terrorists use. The communication strategy, to get attention and convey the message. If you use the violence, it is enough. Terrorists do it often by sending out the manifest or an explanation. The second is the inability to act or overreaskjoner. There are different varieties of it, but to create fear makes people react in different ways. The Red Army made ​​an effort to provoke repression to again provoke revolution. The first was that Breivik successful communication strategy. The main purpose was to promote the compendium in which he conveyed his message. "The rest were fireworks" he said. He succeeded to a large extent with this. He got much more attention to the compendium than if he had not done so. It is the simplest strategy. The second is the crisis maximization. There he explained in court 17 april where he said that the purpose was to provoke a witch hunt. The more people lose faith in democracy will be revolutionary. He says there have been that he has hoped for. He will not have an immediate "boost". It is classic crisis maximization strategy that we see in the Red Army faction.

Comments from VG's Eve Therese Grøttum:
Bjørgo enter Breivik's negotiating strategy when he was arrested by the police, and asks rhetorically whether knight codex his his importance to a situation in which he agreed to disclose information about other so-called cells in order to have a computer with wikipedia. Psychiatrist Terje Tørrissen look closely at Breivik when Bjørgo say this, but Breivik shows no visible reaction.

14:48


Witness Professor Tore Bjørgo:
- It looks like a sophisticated strategy. But it has only one weakness: It is a recipe for fiakso. I know of no examples of some terrorists who have succeeded in creating revolution with this strategy. Terrorists have come to power, but not with this strategy. So it's a recipe for failure. Breivik put forward the claim Utøya and the first court hearing in August where he said that this is a coup and he demanded that the death penalty was introduced and he would have access to a PC, including Wikipedia. He threatened consequences if this would not be met. So it is a bit especially when changing information if he got a PC. He quickly gave up the political criteria, but would be silent on the two he was cellekommandat for, to get a PC on the cell. It's a bit special. One might ask whether it is in accordance with the Knight Code. - Over to it with målutvelgelsen. How do terrorists their goals? There we were illustrated in Breivik's explanation. It has been researched a part of it. Within the action is a terrorist, so defined potential targets and should be weighed against the mitigating factors. One of the most important thing is whether it will be accepted as legitimate by potential supporters. Certainly from that too many innocent people may repel people. Breivik opted out of 1 May train at Youngstorget and APs headquarters, because the Tourist Association has offices there. The degree of such self-restriction may vary. Al Qaeda has at least enough of it. Nationalists often quite severe limitations. Another is the capacity. Number of men, weapons, etc. Breivik had to make do with a car bomb rather than five, because he did not have enough. There is much that can explain how he ended up Utøya. Another element is how hard the goal is to meet with security and so on, where is Utøya is softer one.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Breivik always carefully guarded by many arrestforvarere and police officers. They sit behind him on both sides of the dock. Bjørgo have from Breivik's rhetoric, strategy, actions and goals concluded that he is a right-wing terrorist. He points out that one must look at the context of assessing the Breivik's psyche, if one considers him as a part of mainstream society or in a smaller environment that is right-wing terrorist and oriented. The president Bjørgo many strange aspects of Breivik that he does not understand, including his attitude to women, the explanation about the Knights Templar and the negative exposure of several family members in their own manifesto. Terje Tørrissen pay close attention to when Bjørgo Breivik says this.

14:59


Witness Tore Bjørgo, Professor:
- When you then select a less attractive or legitimate target comes a rationalization for which he did in relation to the AUF-holders. He said they had elected. They still qualify for Category-B. After Breivik's testimony in court as he ressonnerte in court right after the book as terrorists do. So until the end: why they fail most of the planned terrorist attacks? There are two main reasons, they are discovered by the police and security services because they are careless and amateurish. You have to be overly cautious. There was something Breivik did. He avoided being detected and the other gunner is their lack of operational expertise. The fact that such bomb explode error, where the bomb is not well enough designed. Breivik avoided the two mistakes and succeeded in their action plans. He carried out a terrorist act that is the most comprehensive and complex solo terrorist act. Oklahoma City bomber killed several, but they were two. The reason he succeeded was that he had a strong security awareness and taking precautions, but it meant that he was not discovered. He avoided to attract more partners because it was prudent to act alone. I've done a little statistic the last 2.5 years and it has been 9 terrorist attempts. Five solo - and four group-based. Each of the four group-based discovery. All five of the attacks went solo under the radar. Two were successful: Breivik 22 July and "Gun Man". Three were unsuccessful because they blew themselves up.

Witness Professor Tore Bjørgo:
- He had significant komptanse to make a bomb and a strong implementation capacity. Avslutningvis: To return to the starting point: My explanation so far has shown that Breivik's statements and actions are largely consistent with the hypothesis. He appears as a distinctly right-wing terrorist. While there are some features of what he has said and done, that does not always give an explanation. His inflated self-image, his selfishness, his views on women, the way he hangs out his family members, he seems to feel flat, which is odd. The distinction between fantasy and reality is somewhat unclear when he speaks of KT Network. There is no one here in court, I think, who doubt that the defendant has a real image that is highly divergent. Compared to most Norwegians, he spins torment crazy. But he compares with the most militant sections of the right-wing culture, he is not as deviant. But much of what he says is an expression of a collective perception of reality, which is shared by many in the extreme culture of his. - It is not certain that his extreme expressions and actions can be seen as an expression of psychopathology. The court must decide what is best explained by hypotheses (insane or not). [The prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: He's accused of the terrorist section, whether he is sane or not. You touched upon how he is. Reality bursting or not. Can you say something in general who are terrorists?] I've written a bit about this. There are various people who are attracted to extremist groups. There are also various types of tipping over and the terrorists. There are those who are idealists and have a cause they are fighting for or on behalf of, you have those who primarily seek affiliation and perhaps protection, and the third are those that are primarily driven by aggression and frustration. They often have a difficult childhood behind. There are three main types. Breivik is primarily the first type, I would say. [Engh: You say it is characteristic of him that does not fit. Among other things, that he is feeling flat. Do you have any impression on those who do this are følelsesavflatet] It's probably great variation. But the main image ... It has been researched extensively, and most are remarkably normal. [Engh: You mean within the normal emotional] Well .. I know too little about it, to put it that way. I have good colleagues I have spoken with ... But to go into such a rationality, so .. To express little sympathy with the victim does not mean you do not feel different inside. I have interviewed defectors from such organizations, and they tell about the difficulties of doing things contrary to their feelings. It is rarely found mental illness in terroroganisasjoner, because they will be sorted out. We see plenty more of it among solo terrorists.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Bjørgo commented that he also notes that Breivik følelsesavflatet works, and that this is inconsistent with the kind of terrorist he mainly sees him like that. He points out that other terrorists laser man in Sweden, has been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome.

15:08


Witness Tore Bjørgo, Professor:
- Should I take examples. from Sweden, "Laser Man" in Stockholm in the 90s. He killed more than two people and shot ten. "Gun Man" also shot entirely on egehånd. They have been diagnosed with Asperger's that gives the personal qualities that make them have a narrow focus for a long time. When one is yes in the Swedish context, as far as I understand criminally sane. [The prosecutor Engh: - So did you pull at him and things he wrote] I made ​​the big eyes on what he wrote about family and close friends. There is some weird stuff that I think is odd. Clearly also his violent self as he was Europe's savior was very grand, but you will find some tendencies in this neo-Nazis. [The prosecutor Engh: - You think about the role he gives himself] Yes, it is very large [prosecutor Engh: - Have you seen it in your research?] I've witnessed it. [User Myrdal as an example] There was some truth in it [to the Myrdal-example], he was a leader. Breivik paint a grand picture of himself as an actor. He managed to make an action so it is not without foundation. [The prosecutor Engh: - As you mentioned selfishness?]

15:09


Witness Professor Tore Bjørgo:
- These idealists tend to be more concerned (...) than others. It was very violent, with a very focused on themselves. He writes about his looks and how wonderful the successful businessman he is, and how he was attractive to women, an image that unraveled quite powerful when the trial began. (...) I know that the same thought probably to be found in this environment to be implemented. I also suggested that it has not come forward information that substantiates that this organization exists, even in a moderated form. Is this a delusion or a representation as he wants it to be? Is it a deliberate lie, or is it something that he believes exists or is it a glossy picture of something that exists or something he wants to create. I will not deny that there is something in it. [The prosecutor Holden: - It is not a secret that we think Kights Templar does not exist. Do you have examples of terrorists claim an affiliation with an organization that does not exist?]

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Engh ask Bjørgo know of other terrorists who claimed to have been part of a large organization while in reality they have operated alone. Bjørgo says that one of the most important neo-Nazi activists in the nineties described himself as a leader of a major resistance movement, which turned out to be was only a few boys and a dog. - It's a bit like four sweaty guys in a basement that we have heard of. It was a magnificent production, to put it that way, says Bjørgo. It laughs in the audience. All rights psychiatrists glances at Breivik, who do not show any significant reaction. Breivik have mentioned that the so-called inaugural meeting in London may have consisted of "four sweaty guys in a basement."

15:13


Witness Professor Tore Bjørgo:
- Firstly, it is often the case when there is an action that someone takes responsibility. We saw 22 July also. I have not looked for examples of exaggerations now, but it is quite common. I remember a key neo-Nazi who led what they called "einsatskommando", which was portrayed as a big deal, but in reality, three boys and a dog. The reality is often much less than what is being portrayed. [Judge Wenche Elisabeth Arntzen: Think of the time, Engh. There are others who will ask questions, too.] [The prosecutor Inga Bejer Engh: Yes, I have only a couple more. Have you ever heard anyone call himself a knight before?] No. [The prosecutor Engh: Do you know anything about this community recognize the means Breivik have used?] I have not followed the online debate. It has, however, the next witness, I think. [The prosecutor Engh: Have there been researched at some extreme tip?] Yes, very much. Especially after the London bombings and the murder of Theo Van Gogh in the Netherlands. Where young people are suddenly committing horrific acts. It has found some answers, and there are a variety of reasons and processes. For some, the external events, like Norway or Denmark is at war in Afghanistan or Iraq. This we have seen. Police Abuse, whose Red Army Fraktion, can provide effects. And we have it with purely personal thing. The man who murdered Theo Van Gogh lost his mother and had personal problems. It beat out of him. [The prosecutor Engh: But one step further ... When is the extremist crazy?]

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Lippestad Bjørgo ask about the use of cover-ups in preparation of terrorist attacks, and whether it is common. Bjørgo confirms that it is common, but said also that he did not know of other such extensive cover-ups as they Breivik made, such as involving illegal diamond trade and the cultivation of sugar beets. - I have not heard that someone has rented an entire farm before, he said. Vibeke Hein Bæra ask what Bjørgo thought about the choice of words when he read Breivik compendium, considering that the first two experts rated Breivik's use of terms such as so-called neologisms, or reorganization. - With some of the concepts I thought they were quite unsuccessful, while others thought I was going to stick to, say Bjørgo. He believes that the terms "suicidal humanist" and "cultural Marxist" will be remembered. - The word cultural Marxist is backed up by the fact that he killed 77 people, so unfortunately we can not forget it, he said. He points out that many concepts introduced in the political debate, without the special odd.

15:18


Witness Tore Bjørgo, Professor:
- [prosecutor Engh: - Breivik has the even pulled out the Una-bomber who was in the 90s. He has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. Do you have any thoughts on that?] No, I know the Una-bomber, but not seen for psychiatric assessment. [Defense Lippestad: - What you did not say anything more about this course is to stay under the radar. Breivik have told you about a number of cover stories. He says he is traveling with a purpose and it is another. In this research is to have cover stories common among those who are planning an action?] I can not detail this here. If you have someone who goes to a training camp in Pakistan is under the deck that you should visit a relative. It is not uncommon. It's pretty typical. Collects Mon material for a bomb, you will have a normal household tasks you should do. He went a long way in creating a cover story on the farm. It was hardly surprising. I've heard of others who have rented buildings. [Defense Lippestad ask the witness's perception of Breivik's willingness to get a PC and negotiate]. No, not so direct, but part of what he apparently wanted to name his accomplices in this bargaining game. He said later that it was stupid, but it's an unusual strategy. I interpret it more as a terrible strategy, lrisemaksinmeringsktategi. To emphasize that the others were out there. I think it was a threat and not a real action.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Bjørgo argues that Arne Myrdal would hardly have accepted mass murder of Utøya or bomb in the government quarter, although he also encouraged the use of violence to prevent mass immigration.

15:21


Witness Professor Tore Bjørgo:
- [Defendant Hein carry: - Prosecutors were in the use of the word ridderjustituarius, but there are also other concepts. When you read the lecture notes and concepts that have been described as pompous new words, what were your thoughts?] Neon of the terms were unsuccessful, others have the potential to adhere and summarizes a number of well-known argument in the anti-Islam groups. They claim it is a misguided humanism behind immigration. The argument was quite successful rhetoric. The term "kulturmarxister" remains as it is connected with killing 77 people. Therefore we can not forget it. How politicians are trying to promote a cause, see the world in a slightly different way. Siv Jensen spoke about the "sneak-islamifisering." They were a hit, to some extent. We see a number of other new words and concepts which very often falls to the ground. Jagland government tried to "The Norwegian house." There was a short house, in many ways. That way, it's no wonder that many of the concepts introduced will never catch on, but some will. We also get the new word presented every Friday in the "News on the New." So this is now become entertainment. [Defendant Hein Bæra: - Not uncommon it is. Thank you.] - [Coordinating counsel Frode Elgesem: A few short questions. You quoted Myrdal, where he says Muslims will conquer Europe and that there will be civil war. Is there anything that has a reach beyond himself? Is there a move to protect the role of right-wing extremist?] He told you there was resistance groups across the country. Someone should have guns. He was a leader for them, largely because he was convicted of planning a violent reaction. He was probably the one in Norway that had the most appeal to these constituencies. His scale was still treason settlement, with something like 30 that was executed, and he had plenty more stringent limits on violence than Breivik. It will be the type that is ideologically driven to do this. They may well succeed well in life. The man who blew up a bus in London was a successful young man. [Elgesem Lawyer: Can you quickly sum up your criticism against the first expert report?] They excluded from the initial ideology he assumed. This avoids the perspectives, and it is a dubious way to understand an action. They also lacked expertise. It reminds me of two psychiatrists who travel to the jungles of Borneo to assess the accountability of people there. The lack of cultural competence.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Lawyer asks Frode Elgesem Bjørgo to account for the criticism he has made ​​against the first expert report. He believes that it is questionable to consider Breivik's psyche without taking into account the ideological framework Breivik has taken its inspiration from. - I think the conclusion rests on an unsound or partly false premises, he said.

15:27


Witness Tore Bjørgo, Professor:
- The third element was judged when he thought he was under surveillance by the security services and that he explores the house avlyttning. It was interpreted as paranoid delusions it was in my opinion, very quixotic. [Lawyer Elgesem: - Is there anything else they should be analyzed further?] We've talked about neologisms which I knew very well what means, because I have the reference frames in, but for some to interpret them in a psychiatric framework. But much of what they write may not sound like a good review. Some of the assessments rests on false premises. [Lawyer Elgesem: - What about this with the civil war?] I have not applied to how many times it is mentioned, but it draws this conclusion of civil war, as they say it's paranoid delusions, but it is the basic idea of the right-wing terror.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
District Court Judge Arne Lyng Bjørgo ask if he knows the terms Sørheim and Husby perceived as new words or neologisms, such as nasjonaldarwinist. Bjørgo says he does not know all the terms before, but that it is common to link together several words in this way in the political discourse. - The linking hated categories, we see much of. The way to do that is common, but these particular connections Breivik has made, I have not been studied so closely, says Bjørgo. Breivik wanted to make a comment to the explanation of the last witness, but was not allowed by Arntzen of time considerations. She has the whole day stressed that the court must be raised no later than half past four today. When the court went to a femminnutters pause before the last witness, would not give up Breivik that he would comment. - But the judge. When it is so important witnesses, it is important that I get the opportunity to Z. .. he began. - Breivik, we have no time for it today, said Arntzen short while she left the judges bench.

15:31


Witness Professor Tore Bjørgo:
- [Judge Lyng: - The new words we have mentioned, do you mean that it is the defendant who has added the words or have you heard earlier. I think of the words mentioned in the expert report, which nasjonaldarwinist. Do you think the defendant is found on this yourself?] I have not Googled those terms, but those statements I thought was "best" I investigated. that suicidal humanist. Kulturbolsjeviker's a variant of the cultural Marxist. To connect hated categories, we see much of. The way to do that is common, but just the link Breivik made, I have not been studied very carefully. [Judge Arntzen: - Hovedhypotesten your: Building on the forutstningen that ideology comes before the desire for violence?] Not necessarily. People who go into an extreme group does not require a desire to exercise violence. They are all violence as a consequence of the fact that they have entered the environment. A few are primarily ideologically driven, others adapt their reality insofar else after that. This is also described as "cognitive dissonance". But for some ideologies come first. Very often it is not so. - [Judge Arntzen: Can you imagine someone needing to be seen and want to show, you can use ideology as a superstructure?] Yes, it is entirely possible that someone with certain psychological propensities want searches to an environment that fits. [Attorney Lippestad: I have a request for a brief comment from the accused?] [Arntzen Judge: We have no time. Then he must take it tomorrow. We have only one hour. It is possible that we have to expose him.] [Lawyer Larsen: The next witness has traveled from the West Coast. I do not know if he can come tomorrow.] [Defendant Breivik: But the judge. When it is so important witnesses, it is important that I get the opportunity to Z. ..] [Arntzen Judge: We do not have time, Breivik] The court pauses until 12:35.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
The court is now taking a short break before a journalist Øyvind stream will testify. He has for years sought unde the right extremist groups online, and is considered an expert in the area. Stream has recently published the book "Dark Web". Arntzen smiles and nods briefly to Øyvind flow in the witness box before she sits straight.

15:40


Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen:
- As negotiations continue and we have now received the final expert witness is Øyvind Stream. [The witness oath] When you ask questions, do not you use all the time questioning. [The judge chides prosecutors with a pretty strict voice] [The prosecutor Holden: - It has been received] [The witness oath]

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Øivind Strømmen says he has spent years following the debate on the right wing and right wing web forum. He has read the books recommended here and also followed the research in this area. He has worked as a journalist, not as a researcher. Power agrees that Breivik's ideology can be seen as fascism, but also refers to the movement kontrajihadisme, who is also a fascist. In counter-jihadism is the ideas of an external enemy (Islam will take over) and an internal enemy (the political elite as a facilitator), prominent.

15:47

Witness Øivind Strømmen, journalist:
- [prosecutor Holden: - Yes, Strommen, can you explain us a little closer on how to clean practically have been working on this field?] Yes, this was something that began to interest me by several different reasons for five or six years ago. What I have done is to follow the radical and extreme right-wing websites while I have been deposited in the literature which has been recommended as the research literature and history. At the same time what has happened in the right-wing ideology in Norway and other European countries. [The prosecutor Holden: - How do you follow along with it?] It's all about follow the network and follow the general news. It will be released literature and there is research - and journalistic literature I have read. It's been done as a journalist's approach, I have not driven research. I have been trying to find the stories and see how it has evolved as a contemporary phenomenon.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Stream has studied Breivik's manifesto carefully, pointing out several inconsistencies in the texts Breivik has referred to. Among other things, refusing Breivik to have taken inspiration from National Socialism, as he reproduces several texts from the artist Saga, which itself is located within the National Socialist tradition. Power also points out that Breivik has plagiarized the so-called Una-bomber, Ted Kaczynski, his manifesto by replacing a few words. Breivik notes diligently while the current talking, but shows no signs of reacting to his explanation.

15:50


Witness Øivind Strømmen, an expert on right-wing extremist:
- [prosecutor Holden: - How would you characterize Breivik views or ideology?] In short, I share Emberland definition of ideology as fascist. I take inspiration from the same definition that uses Griffen, who has emerged a new consensus. It is the starting point. Fascism as such can accommodate many different things. It's not that there is one specific ideology in which all agree on everything. In the defendant's so-called manifesto, it is clear that much of his world view where we are under some form of occupation, a secret conspiracy with Muslims as the external enemy and the internal enemy, Norwegian immigrant-friendly politicians. Contra-jihadism, as a specific ideological movement, have certain characteristics that are unique. At the same time there are also elements of his thinking. He draws on national socialism. He refers to as militant nationalists. He has referred to the terrorists who have been active in Germany. There is actually a reference to the Nazis, he comes with. In the so-called manifesto refers him to a Swedish artist, but is located within the National Socialist tradition. (...)

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Many of the audience left the hall during the break. Among the audience that remains is still very quiet, except for the sound of the journalists who frequently notes on their laptops.

15:52


Witness Øivind Strømmen, an expert on right-wing extremist:
- This denies Breivik of the so-called manifesto, as he refers to songs and reviews of pure National Socialists. You will also find that his ideas are taken from elsewhere. So much is taken from kontrajihadister, and much of the Norwegian blogger "Fjordman". There are also examples of very many kinds of other ideologies. He has plagiarized texts of the extreme right (referring to the author), where he has only exchanged a few words. He has, for example, replacing America with Europe and put into kulturmarxisme a couple of places. Moreover, it is not an original concept, but is used in several places and by many groups. [The prosecutor Svein Holden: Is there anything that distinguishes him from the traditional right-wing extremist?] Now's the landscape he is in. .. He has put together a cut and paste ideology, but he is most at home as kontrajihadist, also, he has drawn into ideas from neo-Nazis, for example the slide king. The defendant uses the word more tribal and ethnic groups, he also stressed here in court ... It is quite common that the extreme right does not speak directly about race anymore ... But even Breivik talking about racial mixing and has a list of racial categories, only that he calls the tribes. It is not unusual to make it so.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Stream says that those who support Breivik violence are very few, especially when it comes to mass murder of Utøya. He says Breivik has far fewer supporters than he expressed, from what he himself has studied online. Lippestad wonder if it is not difficult for most people to express the written support of Breivik's actions, and whether there might be something supporting him without saying anything about it. Power points out that most people who express support is anonymous, and that it therefore is difficult to estimate, but that it is possible to read from their profiles who express support and who says things they do not mean.

15:59


Witness Øivind Strømmen, an expert on right-wing extremist:
- The racial theories mentioned and put in front of them, are not ideas that can be associated with one type of ideology. It should be noted that within this counter-jihadi community sees that they think racial thinking such as 'Fjordman'. [The prosecutor Holden: - Can you say something about "Fjord man" position within the counter-jihadists?] He is a major ideologue internationally. His essays are mostly quoted and reproduced on several websites. They have been translated into several European languages. [The prosecutor Holden: - Are there any differences between "Fjord Man" and Breivik] Yes, the difference is "Fjordman" has never been directly advocated violence or terrorism as an instrument. He has defended the ethnic cleansing that can not be done without violence. "It may solve the alleged problems in Europe." He has argued that "you have to arm themselves and take the necessary rules." However, not directly to violence. It appears from the so-called Manifesto which has been the subject of the court that Breivik has not only resorted to violence, but look at it as something else should turn to, and which he urges. [The prosecutor Holden: - Are there others who support Breivik's views on violence?] There are the examples of it when looking at this in retrospect, then, one could find people out there who express support and sympathy for the defendant to disclose the attitude and actions he has performed. It's not that we are talking about many people but few. There are a number of expressing sympathy to the bomb against the Government buildings, but not Utøya. There are far fewer people express sympathy than the defendant than think themselves in court. It is not insignificant degree and they are associated with more traditional extremism that neo-Nazism. - [prosecutor Holden: - There are fewer expressing the Utøya larger than what he himself has suggested in court? Could it be elaborated?] On the types of sites affecting the ideological message that is similar to the defendant. And when one looks at things like shared on social media, those who share a lot of the ideas, still has problems with the violent actions and look at it as an expression of madness. [The prosecutor Holden: - When should I take the judge's signal seriously and say thank you there.] [Judge Arntzen: - Does the defender have any questions?]

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Lippestad will once again into this new arrangement with the flow and ask whether the terms in the compendium are new to him, or he does not understand. - It is highly specific concepts that appear nykonstruksjoner, but the two words that they are composed of concepts is not unusual, said Stream. At the same time he says that the terms do not necessarily give so much meaning, and describes them as "unsuccessful reorganization."

16:02


Witness Øivind Strømmen, an expert on right-wing extremist:
- [Attorney Lippestad: You say that there are some who expressed support for the actions too. Is it written on the web?] Yes, it does occur. [Attorney Lippestad: If you were to estimate. It must be a great Boyg to provide written know that you support this. With your knowledge, there are several that support it inside, do you think? But as for understandable reasons, do not flag it?] It is possible. But much of the written support coming from anonymous comments. So you do not know what they really express. Whether it's mental, fill or immaturity. But some of those who write with profiles, anonymous profiles, writes often about more things and are not just web roll. He's supposed to also have received letters tear that supports him. We have also seen an interview from the United States with a young man. But there are a small minority that supports this, and even a minority of those who support the attitudes, actions actually supports. [Attorney Lippestad: You mentioned the word kulturmarxister. Are there any concepts in the manifesto that you think are unique?] What you put the the unique? But it is clear there are expressions, which are also in the experts' reports, as you will not find many matches. It may seem like nykonstruksjon. But it's often just two words put together, which is not so unusual. [Attorney Lippestad: Are there any of those concepts that does not make sense to you?] No ... I will not argue. But there are some that come close, and has no clear meaning. Suicidal Humanist, for example, fair enough to understand, but some others are not. There are a number of unsuccessful reorganization.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Defender Vibeke Hein Bæra want to know what current thinking that it is difficult for people with Breivik's political beliefs to come to the media. - To get to the media, then you have to be able to express themselves with decency. There are a lot of political exaggerated opinions that do not have trouble getting to, say Stream. He stressed that it is very common in these online communities to consider it not to come with a feature article or a letter as an attack on free speech. - If so, I would have been a victim of lack of freedom of expression, for there is much I've written that have not been in print, says Power, to chuckles from the audience. Breivik several times in his statement laid the blame for the July 22 attacks on the media because he believes he did not get to in the political debate.

16:09


Witness Øivind Strømmen, journalist:
- [Defense Bæra: - With a background as a journalist who has followed these groups for 7-8 years. Can you tell us about your decision to speak in other media than in the community, typically those with an editor and against the defendant explained: that to make themselves heard in the media has been difficult] To be heard in the media requires being able to express and write under ordinary decency. But many have not been able to do it or maybe utrrykke up properly. In this type of ideology is an important part of the show. We see it as not in print as an attack on free speech. There are many things I've written that have not been in print, it is also difficult in the right-wing ideology. [Defense consequences: - It is a main part in the debate on the community?] Yes, you can read in your debates with the major media that they use the freedom of expression in organs of the largest of these. When you look at some right wing and extreme environment, one finds that they think that censorship is a common and what they imagine.

Witness Øivind Strømmen, an expert on right-wing extremist:
- [Lawyer Elgesem: - What degree have you participated in the debate on 22 July-case and what you have studied in this connection?] 23 July I wrote a short text on my own website, where I tried to put Breivik in an ideological context. This led to a relatively strong demand from the media, so I've been in the media since then, and pronounced me a lot about it. I have lectured for a lot of players, both private and public, and has contributed to a book that has come out with academic response to the claims of the right extremist groups, and has written a book yourself, and keep on writing a book to. [Lawyer Elgesem: - Also, have you written a contribution to 22 July Commission?] It's about trends in the Norwegian far right, from the 1930s to the present day. What continuities and fractures can be seen. It shows a part of the same quotes from Arne Myrdal, where it is considered unparalleled in its thinking. [Lawyer Elgesem: - You use the fascist definition mentioned earlier. Can you tell us more about it?] Where do I utgangpsunkt in the definition of Roger Griffin: A national through the state, which is necessary because we are facing a crisis, ideas about inner and outer enemies. One can also look at other definitions fascism. Masculinity principle is found in several texts defendants have included in their so-called manifesto. Griffin will point to a new elite (...). There's some of what the defendant himself has written in his fomanifest. He is more specific about their future prospects.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
- The extent to which it is customary to use the Web as a form of communication in these environments? Ask Frode Elgesem. - When they consider themselves to be discriminated against, it is customary to use the Internet or other channels to come out with its message, it applies to both the extreme right and radical Muslims, says Stream.

Witness Øivind Strømmen, an expert on right-wing extremist:
- I must say that his future prospects have strong parallels with totalitarian regimes, as in Iran. [Lawyer Elgesem: With vokterråd, and ..] Yes. [Lawyer Elgesem How do you assess the threat today?] There is a violence potential in the right-wing thinking. It is difficult to assess a threat, and I do not envy those who have the job, but I relate largely to what is being done by the PST and their Danish colleagues. The threat may not come from organized environment, but from individuals who are putting together their own version. [Lawyer Elgesem: It sounds like Breivik] Yes. [Elgesem Lawyer: So this is a trend you see?] The attack on Utøya, not the attack on the Government buildings, is a scale that is unusual. This can not expect to see much of. But serial murders and attacks on Muslim buildings are examples of violence that is more likely. We have seen the Laser Man 2 in Sweden, the murder of Florence in Italy, and other cases. [Lawyer Elgesem: How important are online and discussions in the environment?] Network is an opportunity to spread the message to all the extremists.

Comments from VG's Eve Therese Grøttum:
Power comes with several examples of actions and events that are understood as part of a larger conspiracy, for example, that there has been an initiative called the "Eur-Arab dialogue" and that it is taught in Arabic at European universities. - On the way there is a kernel of reality in it, but it is drawn into a big conspiracy theory that Islam will take over Europe, he explains.

16:21


Witness Øivind Strømmen, an expert on right-wing extremist:
- [Lawyer Elgesem: - It is incitement to terrorism is that correct?] It occurs, but is not common. So one must differentiate between romance and violence, glorification of violence, perception of crusaders and former war heroes who have been highlighted as romantic idols and it is relatively much. And the Knights Templar, this blogger Paul Ray who was to start "English defense league" in his time, he has spoken and that it will come back to the Templar order, and he wants to die as a martyr. It is not unheard of and unprecedented either. Then there are the more so and more striking in this respect, with the civil war shows that are reasonably common, if one looks at the extreme right and radical environment that is within democracy. And I think it's interesting to see what is stated in the first expert report that I have read, and the things that are posted online. In the first report states that: [Stream refers here from their report] 'Observanden thought he was at war and ethnic cleansing is taking place in London. " This is then referred to as he is suffering from a paranoid delusional system. In a comment field where both the defendant and blogger "Fjordman" part. [Below is a brief summary of what the current quote what was written in the comments], "My prediction is that the EU is resolution within twenty years and it is a civil war within the ... This is world history's greatest betrayal. " It is very similar performances in the report. [Lawyer Elgesem: - Is it in other writers?] Yes, there are the counter-jihadi community.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
It is now counsel Frode Elgesem asking the Stream. It was the coordinating aid lawyers asked prosecutors to take on its current list of expert witnesses, and Arntzen gave a clear message that they should get plenty of time to ask him questions.

16:23


Witness Øivind Strømmen, an expert on right-wing extremist:
- [Judge Arntzen: - Has the date for what you read aloud?] Not right now. But this was before 22 July. It was in a comment field where Fjordman wrote in response to a comment from Breivik. [Assistance Attorney Elgesem: - Was it also a dialogue between them?] It is said to have been e-mail exchange between them, but I can not explain me. The police have any say. [Assistance Attorney Elgesem: - Can you say something about Eurabia concept?] It is believed that Europe is occupied primarily through cooperation between Arab countries and parties on the left side of European politics. These ideas have largely been linked to documents in the EU context, including the EU's proximity policy. It is politics that goes on among other things, to promote the teaching of Arabic language at the universities. Also literary conference in Venice. Has there been cooperation between European and Arab countries, it quickly emerged as a part of this conspiracy. (...) It is in this Eurabia theory to a powerful partnership with a major Arabization of Europe, although the forum is dominated by conflict. - In a prospective, including Israel, while Norway does not. But it is used as an example of islamifisering. It is typical. One finds a core of facts, and then rub on Mon with hatred, lies and propaganda. If anyone discuss it, then go really hard on Mon - especially to see the lies. Conspiracy must therefore be about to change Europe, and make the indigenous oppressed. And then there are theories that the politicians work together and contribute to this. The following is the theories that are not related to the Nazi mass murder, so it's not as discredited. [Elgesem Lawyer: How many people support this?] It depends on what level of conspiracy theories lies. Eurabia is used broadly. The same with rhetoric. [Lawyer Elgesem: Fjordman (blogger) wrote an article that everyone should arm themselves both mentally and with guns. This blurred line between news and covert perception of terrorism, is that normal?] This I do not perceive as an incitement to violence. But dystopian world images with treacherous authorities romance and violence are not uncommon.

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Stream has repeatedly emphasized that the blogger Fjordman, or Peder Jensen Nøstvold, has not called for mass murder even though he has been an inspiration to Breivik. He points out however that he understood the article "A new declaration of independence", which Breivik has put in the manifesto, as dangerous. In their article Fjordman that there must be "necessary steps" (Appropriate Measures) if governments and bodies like the EU does not stop the alleged Islamization of Europe. - In retrospect, one can ask what the necessary steps are. Many criticize Peder Jensen for it, but I do not. If I criticize Peder Jensen for anything, it is that he advocates a fascist ideology and ethnic cleansing, says Stream.

Witness Øivind Strømmen, an expert on right-wing extremist:
- But it is clear that does not mean that, for example, "Fjordman" and leading writers have called for it. They have called for ethnic cleansing and mass murder is not. [Lawyer Elgesem: - He ("Fjordman") has written a text that Breivik has been included in the compendium. He concludes that violence is the only action. Are you surprised that the article comes here in the compendium?] No, I'm not surprised, it was published in 2007, but it does not encourage violence. When I read this article as I thought it is a dangerous article. He asked a number of specific requirements for what should be done. The European Union should be dissolved, claims that multiculturalism should be rejected and that all aid to Palestine shall terminate and Muslim immigration should cease. Should not be met, "we shall take the appropriate steps." It is easy to be wise after the event and it is easy to criticize Peder Jensen and say that it is an incitement of violence, but I will not. It is clear that it is no coincidence that this text and the name of this text shows up in contexts where one can see that it is "Appropriate Measures." - [Lawyer Larsen: - It is the use of falsehood in propgandistisk context. Can you say something about this in Breivik's ideology?] This lies and hatpropagandaen will not opppfattes like that of all who use it. But the allegations are spread even if they do not hold water. One can only look to history for examples. [Lawyer Larsen:-And what's the point?] To incite to hatred and often resistance or to adopt measures that ... yes. [Lawyer Larsen: - Can you briefly comment on a cell line of thought. Do you know anything of that phenomenon?] A cell-thinking has gradually emerged in the extreme-right. Americans have expressed concern about it from the Islamic sources. one can look at Curtis in the 1990s. He started his career as a terrorist in 1993 and wanted to create a violent reaction against what he thought was Jewish control of the United States. He stated that the aim is to use encelleterrorisme because it is difficult to detect. It is also found in the Manifesto to defendants. On his own website, he published a kind of points system for lone wolves, and even used the term "Lone Wolf", which would be given scores of different killers. He also had ideas about the medals that were awarded to effective terrorists. - So that there is nothing unique in the right extreme of thinking. That the single-cell strategy is not uncommon in terrorism. [Cute lawsuit Husby: Part of the reason why we are here is that the text means different things to two people. You said Utøya was unusual. What do you mean?] There are several things, in the historical context of terrorism. One is the scale of the attack. If one assumes that he was alone, so it is a very large angrept in historical context. The second is the type of target. Unarmed youths are not a common target for terrorists. There have been bombs in discotheques and the like, and the attack in Beslan, and school shootings. It is very special and it must be regarded as such. I do not think the danger lies in the type of attack in the future. [Cute lawsuit Husby: Because] It takes a bet that most people will have great difficulty to implement. [Judge Arntzen: Have any of the other experts question? No? When we say thank you, Stream.]

Comment from Eva VG-Therese Grøttum:
Husby wondering possibility that Fjord Mans texts can affect different people differently, and what the current opinion that Utøya is an attack that is special and probably will not happen again. - One is the scale of the attack, if we assume that he was alone that we have the making, it's a very big attack an individual. The second is the type of target, unarmed youths, it is not a common target for terrorists. It is an example of bombs on disco, and the closest thing is maybe the attack in Beslan, or school murders. It is special and I do not think the danger lies in the type of attack. - Why not? Husby asked. - Because it requires an effort that I think most people will be able to implement, said Stream. Breivik was not able to make their comments today, and will probably have to do it tomorrow. He applied handcuffs and led out of their arrestforvarere.

16:37


Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen:
- I just want to plan for tomorrow. Lippestad you have an update to come by. [Defense consequences: - The few changes to the witnesses for tomorrow. Frank Aarebrot and Brynjar Lia before lunch and after lunch is Lars Gule]. That means Ostby and Hærland lapses. [Defense Bæra: - We must also set aside time for Breivik we missed today] When the court adjourned.

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